know at that time until just this past june when "the new york times" made its revelation about his abuse of minors, all we knew was his harassment of sem inarians, you know, sharing a bed with another seminarians. >> should have been enough? >> you think that would have been enough and prevent him from rising as he did, but it wasn't on the same level as abuse of minors. >> understood. >> they must have just assumed, well, you know, that's pretty bad, but it's not illegal. >> but it's something that we've seen -- well, it depends on the age, on the consent, on the dynamic. there's a lot you would think you would hold yourselves to the highest level possible given that you're not making widgets. this is the catholic church. then the a.g. comes out with his report in pennsylvania. he says, i believe the pope knew.