businessman. >> we're going to take a break because there's a lot to chew on here, we have facts and then we have feelings about the president. and they are not meshing, okay? >> is he a self-made billionaire? is he a billionaire? maybe. probably, most will say yes. self-made? how do you make the case? is he responsible for a scheme to transfer money in a way that it should not have been done? maybe. we have a lot more to go through with our panel. i've never seen more granular reporting than the new york times has. we also have a former attorney general who could be a future presidential candidate. what is his take on all of this?