to cohen, is that these payments could very well just be the tip of the iceberg in terms of any other, in cohen's words, dirty deeds, that he and the president may have been involved with. >> of course. you can only go back to cohen's own secret recording where he talks about all of the things, all of the stuff that david pecker would need to know and resolve in case he was hit by a bus, for example. >> right, they were talking about getting all of it away from david pecker. they were worried if david peck e as trump said, hit by a bus, who knows where the files would end up? >> all of the stuff doesn't include simply one particular payment to karen mcdougal. you can -- obviously david pecker also has immunity to discuss things as part of ami as well, so you can look at this scenario and think to yourself, well, obviously tip of the iceberg includes all the information that ami would have provided to the team and sdny that would incentivize them to not prosecute ultimately.