have to answer here is why? this is not the way campaigns normally operate, when they're conducting business. which is, dealing with russians. we know what michael cohen was saying about trump tower moscow, that while the president was talking to us saying that he had no business in russia, he was, in fact, trying to arrange a deal there, which fell through. so clearly bob mueller right now is connecting all of these dots. and there are so many dots, we don't -- we don't know about, that eventually i hope we do. >> are you saying, gloria, this is not normal? >> i will say this is not normal, and i will also say, this is not over. >> it's not over by any means. >> i was going to say, in the not over category, this is part of the reason why the shutdown, i think, is not over. if you have a president who has never had as a goal winning majority support, it was only focused on holding passionate support among a small base, from his point of view, all of this