on the shutdown, a national emergency should only be used if we're actually willing to start moving dirt and putting up the barrier. >> what about the acting chief of staff mull sv mulvanemulvane? do we know where he is on this? >> mulvaney, from my reporting, has been, i would say, among the most consistent and most persistent, if not loudest voices in favor of this. and that goes back -- this predates his new title of acting chief of staff, goes back to when he was omb chief, office of management and budget. and from what -- what we're reporting, too, is that -- is that it's helped. about two months ago, then secretary of defense jim mattis told trump, you can declare a national emergency and the pentagon will help build the wall. and from what i'm told, this