direct personal finances, yeah. a bank, maybe not. >> but trump's own personal finances seem to be at the core of this. >> they appear to be, absolutely. what is he like? >> ale llen. >> yeah. he was a very low key guy. humble guy, he called donald -- everyone called him donald, he called him mr. trump. he was a mr. trump guy. he was not in the top tier so to speak or wasn't in the inner circle. he did his job. >> would he sign off on things without mr. trump's knowledge? >> i do not believe that anyone would sign off on anything major without it. >> that's the way the organization worked? >> absolutely. some level of approval yes. >> most organizations aren't --
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