states. >> there's nothing easier than calling out the kkk and neo-nazi ss and yet this president doesn't take that pitch. the republican party has to decide if it's still going to call itself the party of lincoln, whether it's going to follow the example of john mccain or donald trump. that's a stark choice. >> i hear you, john, but just on that, if charlottesville and both sides language didn't change anything or move the needle at all in terms of polling, does this change anything? >> it's not about polling. it's about -- >> it's about moral leadership. >> of americans. do americans -- are they numb to it so many now? >> i think one of the great dangers we're facing is normalization. we'll not see a new president trump. he's clearly decided he wants to try to be the president of his base. not try to be a unifying figure or occupy the oval office as what fdr called primarily in place of moral leadership. that's a problem for the presidency and his presidency. that's a problem for his party but we shouldn't -- we shouldn't expect any miracles here unfortunately. and the white house and its