or not. now as we've learned there are the black hats who do a shady business at the white hats who might use their skills by working for an i.t. company or for the government like for germany's foreign intelligence service for example where master hackers are urgently needed a license to hack that's how the agency is trying to recruit a new generation of computer whizzes but seeing that young hackers usually don't have the most approving attitude towards the concept of nation states and governments who would have a resume here well we found one hacker that was willing to talk. spending hours days weeks trying to get into a system and getting nowhere can be very frustrating but when you finally succeed it's an amazing kick. interviewing lucas is an amazing kick for me to look at