was looking at these low tech alternatives. why? because he took down the world trade center. he took -- he tried to take out the pentagon. he tried to take out the white house. that was such a high-tech operation 10 years ago, it seems amazing to me. >> as i mentioned -- >> shows how far the organization has degraded and how, you know, in the -- when you want a sneak attack on the united states, you do something simple and their options are limited. >> and khali shaikh mohammed is the mastermind. and he's the guy who came up with that plot. he had it 15 years before we actually did it. he actually pulled it off. meanwhile, one of the things he wanted to do is exhort his followers to find ways to recruit nonmuslims who are impressed in the u.s., african-americans and latinos and he looked at our calendars, july 4th, christmas day, 10 years after the 9/11 attack, that's when we should hit them. that will bother americans the most. >> ultimately, while we're told he was not running al-qaida, he was like a crime boss sitting in a penitentiary, you know, dispatching his lieutenants to do different things, sending out