sides. >> absolutely. here's the question. is the perception of power on putin's side and why did putin pick up the phone? >> because he thinks we are in a crisis -- the one thing you left out is you've got tails wagging the dog inside ukraine. what's going on in ukraine is scary. what's going on could provoke a war we don't want. so -- >> a third world war. >> a horrible war. >> if we get involved and europe has to get involved as well, i assume. >> yes. europe would be involved. here's the point. why did putin call? because he's alarmed at the crisis. it's reached the point where there's not a way out. here's your problem. you're the judge. putin thinks obama and europe created the crisis. obama and europe and the judge think putin created the crisis. but putin's worried that it's getting out of control and he should be if you listen to what people are saying. >> but isn't putin the man who -- kgb, intel, doesn't he