thinks. i think he paid a price for that. rumsfeld was an arrogant fellow and self-assured swagger. >> interesting. he came into the congress and basically wanted to be president. i was in congress when he arrived. and he comes in and he barely was a congressman, he was constantly running for president and he wanted to be president and he got it. he made it by becoming reagan's vice president. and he was very ambitious and he felt competitive with me during that period. i tried to run for president at one point. obviously didn't become president, but that doesn't surprise me a bit. i don't get up and say things like that about other people myself. >> laura: we surprised he didn't vote for trump and neither did george w? >> i didn't know that, but i have -- somebody told me they read that. i'm not surprised about herbert