point. it was information that we didn't have yet about a meeting that apparently did not happen. but i want to move on to this aspect of what guliani said. five co-counsel but it's the president's decision. back to that political landscape now that seems to be shifting. what is the reporting on that? >> i think john roberts has some really good sources telling him there's a strong lean that the president is not going to sit down with robert mueller. >> harris: guliani says it won't happen. >> that tells you everything you need to know. then it becomes this loggerhead, whether mueller is going to push forward and test the constitutional bounds of whether the president cannot answer and if mueller files a subpoena, where that heads. likely to the supreme court. >> harris: it's so interesting what robert mueller has right now is no path to indictment