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that like to have all sorts of interesting accounting with their pension funds that goes to the availability of exotic financial instruments that served as a credit card from some of the wall street banks walking in saying, listen, we can get you all kinds of returns for low risk on these cdos and what not. we learned too much about them in 2008. how do you suggest we begin to unravel the culpability of the shortfall in this country without taking it out on teachers and judges who are reliant upon this without holding to account the politicians, pension managers and bankers that made it all possible. >> well, this was really a failure of management in a lot of ways. unions are supposed to ask for more benefits. management is supposed to say no. in the case of san diego twice the city couldn't make its payment or didn't want to make its payment and the union said that's fine. give us a bigger benefit and we

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