divided. the leadership in the military is mostly pro western, western educated and relatively committed to a democracy most of the time. a lot of rank and file people recruited from the intelligence services a long time playing a double game in afghanistan. pakistanis want influence in afghanistan and those they're dealing with in afghanistan are moving to pakistan and that is an enormous problem. this is a deep, deep problem probably doesn't have any resolution. i don't think the pakistan leadership can root out the pro taliban people in this isi and have that stick. this is not going to get better. >> the white house has gone out of its way not to blame pakistan and the government for harboring osama bin laden. at some point, they have to go over there, i guess senator john kerry will go over there and start asking tough questions. >> as well as he should. governor dean is right.