and he saw the boy emerging from the shower, an arm grabbing him back in then sandusky emerging from the shower in a towel. it's something less than what is in that grand jury report, and so therefore, this could undermine the case against curley and schultz. it doesn't, by way, absolve them of the moral obligation to do something when hearing about this. in terms of the legal case against perjury, it could be very significant. >> there's an aspect to this potentially, buzz. i mean, one person says it to one person, they say it to another. if it's not clear what mcquery said in the first instance when he was telling his relatives about this, how do we know what he told to the athletic director or how it got couched finally to joe paterno? buzz? >> you know, that's a problem.