curve where liberals need to couch their arguments this way. that in fact, the kind of thinking that joe biden is trying to advance in policy terms is majority thinking. >> that is right, i mean, most of us don't own guns. most of us don't live in rural areas. you know, most of us don't even go to religious services on a weekly basis. this cartoon picture of the liberal is actually the mainstream. and this cartoon picture of the gun owner is now in the minority. >> and richard, that is -- the challenge for joe biden is he is trying to find the language that unlocks votes on the other side of this issue. he is trying to find language that unlocks the votes of west virginia democratic senators, for example. and so i know example what he was reaching for there.