>> the bulk of the time was with the president-elect, donald trump. i found it an extremely interesting conversation. and to be continued. and i'm just going to leave it at that. >> for the latest on the transition, i'm joined by nbc's kristen welker. i don't know what's going on. all i know, kristen, the list gets longer. the ones that came to the vineyard earlier aren't getting much good time out of this. it must be very frustrating for rudy giuliani, for mitt romney, and the rest. your thoughts? what do you know? >> reporter: you can only imagine. of course, you had mitt romney dining with malpresident-elect trump last week. look, here's how to think about where things stand right now in terms of this race for the secretary of state. you have rudy giuliani and mitt romney who were really the two top contenders. but chris, as we've been reporting, trump world was so deeply divided over these two top contenders, a lot of people saw rudy giuliani as a lightning rod, too much of a loyalist and an insider.