his approval rating is already really low. it's already 36%, you know? he doesn't need to lose all of his base for it to tank the republican party. he just needs to split off a kind of hard-core chunk of it. and there's no solution to this that doesn't alienate someone that he needs. >> well, leon, i said you were wrong, look at the business. michelle says i'm wrong, look at the cults. a final word from you for your thoughts? >> listen, i don't want to go so far as to call it a cult, but i think michelle is more or less right in what he's saying factually. i come at this from a different perspective p perspective. i covered the republican primary from the republican side. all i'll say is that i will believe any significant portion of donald trump's base is going to abandon him when i see it and not before. >> fair and well put and appreciate all the insights from across the spectrum here, michelle goldberg and leon wolf. still ahead, the 25th amendment talks swirling around the white house with michael wolff. well, i've got a man here who was there when it all started.