>> and also clashed with trump. >> he has. he has since renounced trump in the months that follow but he still skriexisted in the world. you covered the campaign as i did and he is still always on the phone. he sort of hears and talks. he is still in the trump universe. and there is no question why he would be an interest to robert mueller. >> he is still in the outer circle. matt, one more question. at the end of the interview i asked what he thought of the interview and whether he thought mueller had anything and he said he thinks that they do. he walked out of that interview feeling stre strongly that they knew something. how much credit should folks like us give sam's words? >> i'm not sure i give it too much credit. based on watching that interview, someone with that kind of meltdown on television, i'm not sure how much i want to -- how much credence i want to give his opinion because it is not based on fact, but becaused on the questions he was