middle man 0 who gets you your points of contact. >> right. >> also hands off information. klimnik being tied to russian intelligence cook he is no longer an active service officer, he's a civilian in direct communications with known intelligence officers and is still handling people for them. >> so now here's the thick thng popped out to me the most. it is a little confusing. this document from mueller was in the charging of alex van der zwaan who was the one working with manafort and gates and was convicted or pled -- pleaded to lying to the investigators. right? here's the thing that is fascinating about this. during his first interview with the special counsel's office, he admitted he knew of that connection betweening the intelligence connection between person a and russian intel stating that gates told him person a was a former russian intelligence officer with the gru.