popped out to me the most. it is a little confusing. this document from mueller was in the charging of alex van der zwaan who was the one working with manafort and gates and was convicted or pled -- pleaded to lying to the investigators. right? here's the thing that is fascinating about this. during his first interview with the special counsel's office, he admitted he knew of that connection betweening the intelligence connection between person a and russian intel stating that gates told him person a was a former russian intelligence officer with the gru. natasha, the issue now becomes did gates know that klimnik was working with russian military intelligence as is he talking to him during the campaign? >> well, the special counsel says he at least told van der zwaan he was former gru. that was an open secret. whether or not he knew he was still connected to russian