the ripping part or the firing part. i never got any answer from the white house. so i have no insight into why they were fired, and it remains a mystery to them too. >> it is a interesting window into the personality and habits of a president to learn that as a matter of course apparently the president according to your piece tears stuff in half or tears it into teeny tiny little pieces after he's done looking at a document. he's like a human shredder, which is a thing. i don't know anybody else who does that. when you say the volume of torn-up materials that the national archive staff are trying to put back together with tape, the volume of paper they're having to deal with has shrunk, is that because the president is doing this less, or is it because white house staff are collecting fewer of the shreds and sending them to the archives to be reassembled? >> my impression of it was that they have -- aides have tried to tell him, explain to him that these papers need to be saved, don't tear them up.