without it. >> this hemming and hawing by giuliani where it looks like he and mueller's team are going back and forth, and we don't know whether that's true or not because mueller's team are so mum and whether this is giuliani playing to the cameras. but i am curious, mueller could end this, as you just said, if he decides, you know what, i'm going to split the baby here. i'll do the subpoena that i know i can win, which is to question him about all of his actions as a candidate. and i punt the questions about obstruction. is that the fallback scenario here? >> i don't see robert mueller going that path. i think he very much would want to ask the questions about obstruction, so i think the demands that giuliani's team are making are quite unreasonable. i don't see any reason why robert mueller would give up on those questions. there's some very real questions here about obstruction of justice. the only person who can really answer those questions are president trump himself because corrupt intent is so important. but really i see his sitdown as