My clay being that he is the winner and that he will now go to the Supreme Court claiming nature for old but joe biden has also told his supporters that hes confident of victory votes still being counted in a process that can take hours or even days our question on to the point since u. S. Election and the winner is. Joining me here in the studio ah pseudo david philip from the German Marshall Fund and he says there is no landslide for any of the candidates but trump ism is here to stay and a warm welcome to to study c. Billions from v. W. So u. S. Election team owner opinion of trump. Think francos destroy american democracy as we know its also with us is joseph watch and soon us journalist and lawyer. Every us state has until december the end to finish counting votes from on the supremes coal must comply with federal law. Thank you very much for being with us here today here on t. W. Stacy w. Id like to begin with you because you have been up all night i know collecting impressions of whats been going on remarkable events whats you know what what what has stood out for you i think with the most was that the polls are wrong yet again. We cant trust them at the moment something needs to be we reworked because. If youre a democrat for example and youve been told that leading up to this biden has is in the lead and its going to be a landslide and then all of a sudden you realize that this isnt the case and if youre a black lives matter person or a person whos in the l b g t q community you realize that theres a part of america that does not care about equality and safety for you and thats very scary. Why is america failing to go about right i think that theres a theres many issues involved part of it is education an educational system that focus more on patriotism than on true education and you know clear thought and i think that there are certain people that support trump because they love the tax cuts and then theres other people who actually believe the racist rhetoric that if youre black or brown that you are not as that you are inferior and that the reason why you havent made it in life is because youre not smart enough and youre not Strong Enough and it has nothing to do with with institutional racism sudha your initial impressions yeah i think that the landslide never occurred and whoever wins will win by a small margin so that means that the United States will we continue to be sort of polarized and there may be some flips that we see. When it comes to certain states but i guess we have to remember that the results are not yet in and it will take a while for them to be counted and so we have to see how this all pans out and its not just the white house we also have to see what congress looks like will the senate flip to the democrats and if that happens and president does get reelected then congress can be an effective check on the presidency the results and your tune but President Trump joeys will reduce saying that he is the winner. I mean this is the most undemocratic thing any electoral official could ever say before weve even finished counting the votes. He wants to stop the vote and then he was tweeting out inaccurate information if you were in line when the polls closed you are able out to continue to stay in that line and to cast your vote for him saying any on one of his tweets you know people are voting after polls close thats fraud thats not fraud thats actually how the system works and so i need to rein it in a little bit but donald trump has proven through out his presidency that there was no lie too big he was going to shy away from telling and now were entering a very critical and dangerous moment of our electoral process where on the Election Night while we know we still have days or weeks to count things hes saying oh stop it its all fraud. Youre saying its extremely dangerous i mean is there still will trump. I mean hes been disruptive throughout his presidency that has been one of his trademarks but is this something does this go still further is he now. Moving into a 2nd term to change america completely from what we know this is what hes been building up for you know hes been telling us for the past couple of months that we couldnt trust our Electoral Systems that there was going to be fraud that the democrats were going to try to steal the election away from him hes been telling his supporters that they should go you know watch the voters which is really its nothing more than voter intimidation which is illegal in fact and so the concern now is how much further is he going to go weve always seen he moves you know it just the temperature gets a little bit hotter a little bit hotter we get used to that a little bit hotter a little bit how do we get used to that and what were seeing now is hes trying to say that the results are illegitimate hes trying to get his supporters riled up the problem is im sure are still listening to him and standing by as he said in the 1st debate hes really i think at this point knowing there are so many criminal. Lets hear what the president himself has to say. We want the load to be used in a proper manner so well be going to the u. S. Supreme court we want to hold voting just. We dont want them to find any ballots at 4 oclock in the morning and them for the list ok. Its a very sure. Its a very sad moment to me this is a very sad moment and we will win this and we. We already have. In your capacity as a lawyer which is the usual resource for us to have today at the time tell us whats going to happen next and what the sort of the timetabling of it might be i mean the difficult thing is so theres no you know one system for all the 50 states each of the states votes differently they count their votes differently some states have already counted votes before election day some wont count until after with the absentee ballots but the thing that does bind all states is whats called the electoral count at that says that you know we have voted on november 3rd there are 41 days until the Electoral College has to meet thats december 14th and theres whats called the Safe Harbor Provision 6 days before that december 8th which is the date at which all the states have to certify their results so no matter what trump is saying no matter how much hes threatening to go to the Supreme Court now the Supreme Court will be bound by this congressional law its over 100 years old and we have to respect that. Youre not doing it well i mean i think its it is outrageous what donald trump says about having been victorious already but at the same time i mean i actually think he can say that in a sense because even though he may lose at the end his ideology for the Republican Party is not going to go away any time soon and the question is because if the dollar loses badly if he wins thats one thing but if he loses by you know by a hair line his idea of the Republican Party will be here to say as well his family i mean hes got. Your and who are surely looking into future political careers themselves ok lets just before we move on lets listen to what to challenger joe biden has to say its not my place or dollars where. Thats a decision of the american pretty poor but im optimistic about this. They see how important is it for the American People to make that decision themselves rather than having the whole months ago. Of lawyers and how important is it that they get a clear decision. I think a clear decision now. Is not going to happen and we need to take the time were in the middle of a pandemic theres a reason why so many people are mailing and their votes their votes theres a reason why there is a backlog millions of votes have come in and you have people they dont have as much manpower and certain counties and so theyre counting as fast as they can but its better to have it right than to have it fast and this is what i mean when im talking about trying to destroy democracy this is each persons voice each person saying what they want and the very idea that the president of the United States wants to take aware their vote is unconscionable i was so moved when i heard about this Harris County texas lawsuit this is the president didnt file this lawsuit but the Republican Party supports it another republican activists was trying to get 127000 votes rescinded because of the way the votes were cast it was illegal according to their to the laws of that county but still they were trying to take away peoples votes people who voted early and in good faith its unbelievable has been a huge surge in sports with normal job incontrovertibly of us top of this is what we are seeing many movie americans tune into donald trump is the man that they see the future invested in this at the same time as the pump them account as it out oh well i actually think that if it werent for the pandemic doll trumpet of coasted to toward reelection i think many experts were saying that at the beginning of this year because the economy was doing so well that donald trump had a very good chance of winning reelection now the coronavirus pandemic changed all of that and our country as you know undergone 3 crises at the same time economic want to Health Crisis and also one of Race Relations in the United States but i suppose his messaging about law and order has you know had some effect on voters to. Election before the election and also his attempt to paint the democrats as radical left socialists that must have also had an effect to an extent however joe biden has failed to come up with a lot of what youre saying is that the problem with joe biden or a problem with the Democratic Party or what i do think that joe biden has been is the man for the moment for the Democratic Party in the sense that hes a moderate candidate he can unify the party and you know elections usually general elections are won from the middle not from the extremes so i guess he is the right man for the moment but instead of it making it just a referendum on President Trump perhaps the democrats could have given a little bit more airtime to what they what they want to do i mean thats that kind of got lost in all the noise. Lets listen to what weve got 2 voices from ordinary americans if you so lets listen to what you can pick up quick. If you forgive very. Very very many people. Over here mark youre right im very frightened for america very right i love our democracy throughout america and i dont know if you could do it already and i just want to thank you again for america and are going to be very important. So yellow taxicabs im going to see him that was my hometown new york city without even me to assume who those people you know supported i think the problem that Many Americans have not been able to grasp at this point is that donald trump is the danger to the american presidency to the nation to democracy to the International World order to peace to stability weve had over 200000 lives lost the pandemic and i think you know if you have to look at it kind of like a cult you know people have been so brainwashed i think is the phrase were using that at this point theyre committed because at this point for them to turn against Donald Rumsfeld if they are doing and they can sadly American Voters vote for donald trump that is the proportionality is there i mean dont half of registered voters and this is an important other important distinction so its not half of the nation we have unfortunately i think still many undecided voters perhaps you know tens of millions of undecided voters and a number of disenfranchised voters as well so. Yes half of registered voters perhaps many vote just say i think to be fair joe a lot of these problems were also there before the era of doll trump you know they were just sort of swept under the rug by both republicans and democrats and thats kind of the reason we have dollar trump as well he can he you know he campaigned in 2016 as an antiestablishment candidate and its true you would think that considering where we are right now that. It would be toast for him on election day but obviously there are enough people who think that dollar trump is the right person to change things that are not correct about our native by hate and motivated by racism a lot of people a lot of people yes but not entirely im not saying that every everyone is like i said some people are just worried about their bottom line but there are so many people and i know this is my experience growing up in a predominately white suburb where people automatically assume that if i was if youre black that you you didnt really belong you must have been on some kind of a Welfare Program or you know if you were in a good Academic Program oh well you know you were just let and just because of affirmative action it was never because you were deserving or because of your merit it was because you were black and. And they feel like and were talking about the people that white voters they feel aggrieved and they feel like theyre not further along because of some black or brown person thats taken their place they dont seem to realize that theyre also part of the problem because theyre voting against their interests i am lost how white poor americans can identify more with donald trump than with joe biden that blows my mind you see very very see donald trump is hovering the births of credentials will be a comedy for exam done a lot. Of fool yes but when you look at it and if you are critical thinker this man has filed bankruptcy how many times what has he ever succeeded and he inherited money from his father and hes now what 4 120000000. 00 in debt he and mitt he inherited an economy from joe biden and barack obama and even though coded had devastating effects we were already in a manufacturing recession so what has he done and what has he ever accomplished. Meanwhile the vote counting goes. Not going to be weve had the intervention from donald trump his cold to save the mountain to the comes constitutional cold is the is the election of the vote counting going to continue as planned then is this going to sort of leads to. The the appointment of a new president as planned is everything going to stay on course i think hes barking a lot because hes worried but there are laws and there are rules and just because donald trump says the opposite doesnt erode those rules and those those laws so yes the vote counts will go on and maybe he will try to File Lawsuits but the low cut will go on peoples votes will count at this point we should just assume and take for granted that there will be multiple lawsuits filed in multiple counties and from both the biden and the trump campaigns because what were really saying is you know if you look back 20 years ago to bush v gore. George bush at the time george w. Bush won by a little over 500. 00 votes thats the margins were talking about here a little over 500. 00 votes decide if that election so were definitely going to see that here especially if the margins are as close as appearing they are. I still cannot understand how the americans could have fooled this full of such inefficiency around the election of the president thats the time of the. Time of such of a of a Major Economic recession i do think to be fair states have also learned from 2016 because of election interference our intelligence agencies have been very clear that there was foreign interference and dissent from asian on the internet and states have taken the time to fortify the election systems but at the end of the day there is a pandemic and there are mail in ballots and absentee ballots and it will take time to count patience is necessary. A huge turnout. Means that people are super engaged and i guess if anything if we even if we dont have a result at least that is the good news that people realize that their vote counts and even in the midst of a pandemic theyve used the instrument of voting and thats the best thing for our democracy but i think it also means that just because theres a higher turnout it doesnt automatically mean that its going to be a great showing for the democrats and i think thats something that theyve always thought that we have high turnout that means its going to be smooth sailing for the democrats and if its a low turnout than if the rest will stay because everybody thought sort of the demographic change was going to benefit the democrats the democrats and eventually the minority vote will come out and support the democrats but its not as clear cut because maybe when we look at the results of the selection hispanic voters are very heterogeneous not everyone probably voted for the democrats will have to see it is an interesting question that has prevailed has clearly been a surge despite everything that you guys have been saying. Of support of a surge of numbers for donald trump. Well i think you know he has the full apparatus of the Republican Party behind him you know despite being impeached despite you know there were numerous criminal inquiries into his behavior from before and during his present. See republicans are valid against him he got them 3 Supreme Court justices during his term that is more important to them than most other things roe v wade abortion is still a very very important is a real and genuine triumph. Because he has ensured that there will be conservative policymaking through the court for decades to come and not just at the Supreme Court also when you look at his imprint on the federal judiciary so you know i think the problem that democrats often have is we have our eyes only on one ball of the white house as they say we need also you know both houses of congress to pass legislation we need the federal courts to uphold that legislation and not turn it back so donald trump and trump ism is absolutely here to stay as unfortunate as it is what interim phase of trump is. Its not the fine you know the Republican Party had no we didnt. Want to have it into their agenda wa