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because theyn' think about it. they had one goal, which was a pretty big goal, which was to defeat the soviet empire, and they succeeded and in the process they weren't willing to be diverted to what they would have called secondary issue when you look at the worldwide scale of the cold war. i think there's no question that you had a continued american effort to end apartheid. there were arguments -- >> they weren't pro-apartheid. they were just against sanctions. >> they were against sanctions. at the same time, for example, i met at the time with the chief of the zulu and he was against sanctions. there was a split argument inside south africa but a group of us decided in the end, a number of younger conservatives at that time, bob walker, vin webber, myself. if you're pro-freedom, you can't be tolerant of apartheid. >> newt gingrich, thank you. always interest.