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of of reasons why their team won beyond just the one player. >> i'm going to have to disagree with you there, jerry. as an athlete i do think that these things don't happen in isolation. i think a lot of times either the managers or the coaches are very privy to what's happening whether they turn a blind eye to it or whether they i don't want to say facilitate but potentially facilitate these things. i think there is a double standard. i think if there were harsher rules, sanctions and punishments placed on the coaches and managers there'd be less in the sport. >> is it possible a coach would know? >> here's what i'm saying in our sport in track and field we have coaches that have repeat athletes that are being tested positive. i have a problem with them still being able to coach in our sport or manage. i think once you've done that you shouldn't be allowed to be in the sport. >> you're a big baseball fan, right? >> yes. >> do you think tony la russa didn't know that mark mcgwire was doing something that wasn't cheating? >> i don't know why the st.