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is what the ukrainians are flying now. this is all analog. this is like going back into the 1970s or before. and it's very different to go from this to this. >> totally. no, i mean, even a person like this, i can understand how very different that is. before i let you go, i want to talk to you about drones. those have been such a key part of this war. russia claims there's been several drone attacks by ukraine sunday. and this -- researchers say russia is making its own version of an iranian made drone. what do you make of the use of drones in this conflict? >> this is one of the most revolutionary aspects of this war. every war has something different added to it. drones like this, you can say i can pick this up at a local hobby store and build something like this. the ukrainians are doing this and they're creating these out of a suitcase and you can launch them fairly easily by hand and