directly. there are very traditional protestants who object to any image of their savior being in any context. find it deeply sack ra intelligence. are you saying all of the great pictures in the national gallery should be taken down, is that what you're saying? >> blake, you can find an extreme example, of course. i'm talking about something where the vast overwhelming majority of the american people -- >> you're have no way of knowing that i'm sorry -- >> -- are going to say ants crawling on jesus christ is offensive. if you don't understand that, i've got to invite you to see the real world. >> the point of that was not to offend anyone. point of that was actually to express -- i can give you a real positive reading. the point of that was to identify with jesus christ as a sufferer. >> with ants crawling all over his body? >> i'm going to call a quick time-out. blake, brent, appreciate your coming. this is a conversation we can continue. i assume in the debates about the smithsonian and the exhibit it may go on. i appreciate you both for coming in. still ahead with us here, we'll