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someone in their chest and win a zero sum game. i think it explains why you and i had disagreements on how good he did in a debate. i didn't think he was as good in a debate because he was striking out more at nikki. i'm saying what i think is most effective by vivek and i'm blown away by him at his events and ability and even with a confrontational interview with the media. pete: he's really good at it. rachel: go ahead. pete: the impression a will the of voters have of him though will come from the debates. will: yes. pete: right? that's a lot of perception some have unless you're watching it very closely. but he is a one of a kind communicator and there's no doubt about it. rachel: what he did, nikki aside, took on rhonda mcdaniel and the whole system out of the gate, there's a lot -- it was