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want to get into the particulars. i want to honor the conversation, the privacy of the conversation. i know what i felt. what i feel is this is a time of choosing. this is a moment in which the nation has to in some ways -- what's the phrase he used. we have to confront the old ghost in new garments. we have to confront the old ghost in new garments. that really requires in so many ways understanding that this american experiment stands on the precipice, on the edge. and we have to understand why. i think telling that story forcefully, understanding that genuine justice, genuine equality, genuine democracy is not a zero-sum game. that's the president's language. it's not a zero-sum game. jose, he has to confront the contention, the contradictions, the conflict. those were young people who protested. you saw those folk, those five students who jumped up, the five young folk. there are deep divisions. trying to hold the nation to account to its promise and its