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some will deny it anyway but we can make it hard. be prepared to weather criticism, that is inevitable whatever we say. sounds like old journalism there. i think the difference is that you have donald trump and trumpists and the propaganda, the big lies they keep moving around. george orwell said fascists, pretty good at lying. pretty great at propaganda, when he was comparing them to marxists. it takes a special talent. talk about the importance of pinning people down. >> i think that's vital. i think that is old school journalism. some people say it calls for a new approach to journalism. it calls for a better approach to the standards we have. you talk about speaking falsely. you need to hear what a candidate says. you need to hear what donald trump says. i've interviewed donald trump. i'd interview him again if he'd say yes. whatever he has to say has to be presented in context. i think we have to try to focus

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