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you're looking at trying to get people out of their houses, bring along friends and family and potentially get people who didn't know they were going to caucus to show up. that's h you beat your poll numbers. that's really what ron desantis needs if he wants to go forward as all. >> let me go back if i can, mark, to the graphic we just showed, which is about the enthusiasm levels that were registered in our poll. that's what a lot of people see as the problem for nikki haley, the people who are extremely, very enthusiastic about her are 39%, 62 for ron desantis and 88 for donald trump. when we talk again about the expectations game, what does a win for her have to look like? is it just coming in second? or does she have to come in second by a certain margin? >> well, that's a really interesting metric. and in presidential elections we look at enthusiasm and whether there's an enthusiasm gap. that's especially true when it's below zero.