Rhetoric. He wants these moments to be recorded in the history books. Rose we conclude our look at the Environmental Protection plan offered by the president with roger martella, former General Council with the e. P. A. In the administration of president george w. Bush. The Clean Power Plan announced is a fundamental reregulation of the Energy Sector. Its effectively the healthcare law for the Energy Sector but without Congress Passing the law. So there is other tools available in the Clean Air Act, but if we want to have comprehensive climate control, if theres a policy the president wants to promote about comprehensive Climate Change controls theyll need the tools. Rose finally, Robert Jordan, former u. S. Ambassador to saui arabia under george w. Bush, his book is called desert diplomat. After 9 11, it became apparent 15 over the 19 hijackers were saudis, with we had to determine if they were friend or foe. We didnt know how deep the resentments against the u. S. Went, we didnt know how organized al quaida was within the kingdom and it became my job to find that out. When i arrived a number of the senior saudi royals were in denial that these 15 hijackers were saudis. I paid an initial Courtesy Call on then the governor of riyadh prince salman who is now the king. He said it had to have been the israelis, the saudis would never do this, so this had to be a mossad plot. Rose the president s environmental plan and former connection to the ambassador to the saudi arabia when we continue. Rose additional funding provided by and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose president obama announced monday the final version of sweeping legislation to cut Carbon Emissions from the electricity sector. The Clean Power Plan imposes the First Nationwide limits on Carbon Dioxide from power plants. It is the signature piece of the president s domestic policy. You know, over the past six and a half years, we take on some of the toughest challenges of our time from rebuilding our economy after a devastating recession to ending our wars in iraq and afghanistan and brig almost bringing almost all our troops home to strengthening our security through tough and principal diplomacy, but i am convinced that no challenge poses a greater threat to our future and future generations than a change in climate. Rose joining me is Gina Mccarthy, she is head of the Environmental Protection agency which proposed the new regulations. I am very pleased to have her here at this table. Welcome. Its great to be here charlie, thanks. Rose tell me what you know about what this means to this president because you do have the sense, as he looked at what he hoped to achieve becoming president , and as it winds down in the last quarter, that there were certain things that he wanted to make sure he got done. Yeah. Rose this is not complete, yet. Its got a lot of opponents. We just finalized it. Rose but its not complete in terms of opposition it will face. Oh, that is for sure. Rose tell me how you think he feels, because he talks about the unimaginability of looking at what might be if we dont act. I think we all know that the president is a thoughtful person and weve had conversations about it. In fact the day that he asked if i would become the next administrator at e. P. A. , i asked him would he do something on climate, because that was the big Unfinished Business at this point, and he you know he has been eloquent in how hes spoken about climate. He talks ability his own two daughters, about the science hes seeing and puts it in a framing thats different than anyone else i have heard. Prior to his getting up two, almost three years ago now, he talks about it as a moral responsibility and he means that. He is constantly looking at the science and worried about where the world is heading and, to him, its just unconscionable that we wouldnt recognize the fact of climate and actually take action today, because he sees what its already doing to the world we live in and what the future might look like if we dont really act now. One of the most interesting things he said in the speech yesterday i think was the fact that we are the first generation to feel the effects of climate and the last generation to do something about it. Rose when why is it so difficult . Why are there so many people opposed . Whatever the numbers are. Charlie i have been asking that question for a long time and i think what ive come to realize is when i First TalkingClimate Change, because i have been in the environmental field a long time, im mostly worried about public health, thats what i do. I was looking at the data in excess of 20 years ago, more than that, actually, 30 years ago, you know you started to get a sense of what was going on and the trend you were seeing. But back then, we were talking about projections of a problem with literally no solutions we could talk about, and, for people, that is just not going to work. You know people need to know that there is hopefulness before theyre even going to admit there is a problem. If you give them a problem where theres no solution, they pretend it doesnt happen or they stand still because theyre too afraid of it. We have been doing that for 25 or 30 years. So i think what we see now, is we actually have solutions and were actually being hit with the problem now. We could stand up and say that in 2012 we spent 120 billion that nobody budgeted for because of impacts of climate. We are getting hammered, already. Rose this is about power plants and Power Generation yes. Rose put it in the context of the entire effort by the administration. Well, i think power plants is one piece. The president announced an entire Climate Action plan and that was a crossadministration effort and it started with the work he did on mobile sources on cars. That was another area where we had some Real Solutions to put on the table. We had highlyefficient cars electric cars that are being produced, so we put together a rule that reduced Carbon Emissions from vehicles, and the Automobile Industry began to soar. They were selling cars people wanted to buy. That was a good one. We did it with heavyduty vehicles, that worked out well. Were doing a second ranted of heavyduty vehicles were looking at hydrofloro carbons depleting the ozone substances and we move to other solutions. As time moves on the United States ino violates, new products come out, we have solutions. Thats the difference of today than before. People werent seeing or feeling the impacts and they didnt know there were solutions. The reason why we can move forward in the power sector is because the electricity industry is transforming, already. Were not making it look at renewables today. It is happening because the market is demanding it. People want them. There is a transition from really heavy carbon polluting fossil to natural gas which is much cleaner, and now were seeing the growth and renewables that, between last year when we proposed this rule and yesterday when we finalized it, it is beginning to take off. Rose but the president , as i understand what he has said, wants to say to the world, this is our model. Yeah. Rose were not just preaching. Yep. Rose and we realize you were at a different point in your own economic evolution, but this is what we have to do and we cant urge anybody else to do it without doing it ourselves, and heres our program. Thats right. He put really three parts to his Climate Action plan. The first one mitt mitigation, which is what were talking about. The second is adaptation and the third was International Global solution. So basically, he said the one thing we know for sure is that we will never have a Global Solution on Climate Change unless the United States takes action domestically and shows a sense of seriousness because we are the second largest polluter carbon polluter in the world, the largest world economies need to step up, and, so when he actually proposed this Carbon Pollution plan from our Power Industry last year the rest of the world did notice. We had china stepping up and doing a joint announcement with china for the first time got away from the Carbon Intensity goals and said, were going to get serious, were going to cap, and were also going to look at renewables. Then you have brazil come in just a short time ago. Weve had good conversations with india. So we know that the United States had to do it rose with these other economies. Right. Rose you see Mitch Mcconnell, saying over my dead body youre trying to kill my economy, kill the jobs of the people who elected me. I do feel for the coal industry in terms of the jobs that it has and the people that rely open those jobs and the communities there, but the truth of the matter is since the 80s, a lot of those industries have been losing jobs significantly. We are not in the 80s anymore. It is many years later. We actually have to work with those communities to figure out how in a changing world they transition themselves. Thats why the president put together a proposal called the power plus proposal to really start investing in those communities rather than letting the fear of those communities drive an entire energy and envionmental world. There is no question they will need help burks thats happening anyways and has been for years. Rose also raises question like people from the president of harvard, raises constitutional questions about this violation of the states tenth amendment rights. What do you say to larry . Well, im not a lawyer and, certainly, even if i were i wouldnt argue with the man. That question i mean weve operated on cooperative federalism for the entire time of e. P. A. This is a total partnership between states and the e. P. A. Rose and give them the opportunity to fashion their own plan . Thats right. Were setting a standard which is what everybody in the world has been telling e. P. A. To do. You set the standard, we do the plan, well get there. Thats exactly what this is. Rose and, so, what is the goal in terms of 2032 . Actually, 2030 is the goal. Rose and you will change what . Were actually going to reduce Carbon Pollution from the power sector by 32 below 2005. Rose thats doable. Yes, it is. And thats a result of all the analysis weve done. It wasnt the goal. It was the fin liner when we did the rule. Thats where it comes out. The goal for us at e. P. A. Is to look at how we really capture the best system these units can achieve, and they all have to achieve it, and then we count up those reductions. We dont do it reductionsback we do it bottomup, and this is what we came up with and i think this is a significant reduction but its an indication the energy world is changing, and so were riding that wave and were pushing it along and making sure it continues to happen. Rose what do you say to the states that say no to the clean power . I think they will be few. I think most of the states want to do their own thing and customize their own plan. Rose theyre calling it federalism. Were told them, you can do this in a way thats suitable to you. I dont care look at energy efficiency, switches to natural gas, renewables, do what makes sense for your own economies and your own region so you can work with other states. If they choose not to e. P. A. Will do a plan. We will do that for them. We also propose what that might look like yesterday so that states would understand what the choices are. Its not that well punish them when they come in, it will still be viable and reasonable and affordable for them to do it but why not do it on your own, you have been asking for it forever and states really want to lead. Weve developed gate relationships with the states during our outreach and i believe theyll step up. Rose marco rubio, running for president , said if youre a single mom in tampa, florida, and your electric bill goes up 30 a month thats catastrophic. If youre a single mom in tam parks florida, will your bill go up . No, it wont, not anywhere near 30. This is one of the most insidious arguments im seeing. Its the most vulnerable communities, the low income communities were acting for. Theyre the most damaged in a changing climate. We see it over and over again. There is no way well fashion a plan thats going to hurt the very people were trying to help. This plan does a couple of things it provides clean air for our kids and Carbon Pollution reductions. We are talking about a net gain in 2030 every year of about 45 billion savings because the energy world always costs money, the energy world in 2030 with this plan will cost less and save lives. Rose according to senator rubio youre saying its not true . No, and the cost to consumers by 2030 will actually be an 85 a year savings because the world were looking at the cheaper, easier. The first year of compliance, it is going to be about a gallon of milk about 3. By 2025, thats going down to 1. Then the savings accrue. So there is no way were actually imposing an unaffordable plan on the very people were trying to save. Rose what about a carbon tax . Yeah. Rose i know Oil Executives who believe in a carbon tax. Yeah, i do, too. I mean, the president has always told congress theyre free to take action on this. In fact, we would help them if they want to do it. Its just, you know, the president had to use the authority his administration had and the Clean Air Act isnt the tax policy, its a lunges its a pollution reduction strategy. Is the price very high, no. Rose when you see the coalition of governors, they see the stakes high as well. What do you think their definition of their interest is. Well, i think understand the folks worried about the coal industry, but i think there are solutions to that. I think we can work with folks in the way we always had when the economy shifts and things change, because thats really what this is all about. But i think, for the most part we have just failed to engauge the broader stakeholder community, the people who really need to speak for themselves and we have been doing that. This rule did not come from people sitting in a room anything big thoughts. Weve spent two years of engagement on this unlike anything weve ever done. 4. 3 million comments came in on this rule. Our response to comments will be 50,000 pages. So weve heard it all, charlie but what weve done is reached out to other communities. You know, when people realize this is not just about polar bears, though we love them this is about their own kid, whether they can breathe, this is about asthma they begin to get engaged and they are engaged now. Thats what get us over the finish line. Rose you get it from both sides. Jim hansen wrote an argument that said previous model for Climate Change are too conservative and the Sea Level Rise of several meters might swallow our coast in this century. Is that alarmist or is it saying we bet gert real . The only thing i can say sit frustrates me just as much when people say you havent solved the problem when you put something out. The president never said he would solve it. He said hes going to get moving, take real action domestically, do it in a way thats reasonable and achievable so people can see action doesnt hurt. Rose and if you reach all goals by 2030, you will say what . I think well say that its been successful, but only if weve already achieved a Global Solution, because i think we cannot wait till 2030 for the solution to happen. Rose what do you think will happen in paris . Well, i think it bodes well the conversations weve already had, and we think that the Global Community will begin to embrace this. Do i think theyll get an agreement over the finish line . I have no idea. Ill leave it up to my International Folks and secretary kerry, my good friend. But i do think this will change the dynamic, and you can only do what you can do and i think this is it and hes doing it. Rose thank you for coming. Pleasure to have you. Thank you. Rose Gina Mccarthy, administrator of the Environmental Protection agency. Back in a moment, well hear more voices on this very important issue. Stay with us. Rose we continue our look at Climate Change and the president s proposals from washington Carly Fiorina of the New York Times and from the the washington post, steven mufson. I am pleased to have them here. It is clearly a circumstance in which a lot of people are gearing for some battle or not. We see the organizations coming together and probably already have been together but tell me how you see what the president is doing. Is it simply cementing what he has done or is it more than that steven . A little both. Above all he wants to cement a deal in paris on Climate Change. It helps us as the United States meet the target of cutting emissions by 26 to 28 . Th