Against donald trump stands tonight we are going to get to the United Nations which we dont do often enough here. Were gonna speak with our u. S. Ambassador because the United States becomes the head of the Security Council tomorrow. It is our turn or the investors turn we should say. You had ambassadors fantastic i was just talking about the u. S. Having this confounding dilemma or decision to make deciding whether its gonna keep its word on being really mad at ugandas tell the case law while simultaneously planning to go ahead with this hundreds of millions of dollars of findings that we give them for anti aids this year and thats it youre gonna talk to her about that tonight of course the u. S. Has it even bigger level of influence and we usually what. Thats fascinating. I will ask for your question when she gets here. God bless, you thank you so much. Thank you rachel. Well the pressure is working the pressure from Special Prosecutor of Donald Trumps associates and codefendants impossible coconspirators is working exactly as intended. Its very bad news for donald trump tonight the star witness against donald trump who identified on this program as Trump Employee for. Apparently flipped him decided to testify against donald trump after receiving a Target Letter from the special part prosecutor. Donald trump has to be worried more than ever tonight that his associates will flip and start cooperating with jack smith as soon as they receive Target Letters from jack smith. Trump employee for could start a stampede of trump witnesses against donald trump in all of the criminal cases that donald trump will be facing. Trump employee for use all to various received a Target Letter from special Prosecutor Jack Smith after donald trump was indicted by jack smith in espionage in Obstruction Of Justice indictment. Imagine working at maralago and having a Target Letter from jack smith after you have watched your coworker march into a Federal Courthouse in miami as a criminal defendant with donald trump. As a Trump Employee working at maralago in a matter how much you worship to fear donald trump. When you watched him get arrested that day, by jack smith something should have happened to your confidence in Donald Trumps ability to protect you the superseding indictment that jack smith filed on thursday added more criminal charges against donald trump for his attempts to destroy evidence in the case. Tell us the story of two Trump Employees that made two very different decisions. And dealing with jack smith ucl tavares who was identified in that superseding indictment only as trump can play for clearly made the decision to cooperate with jack smith after watching his coworker become a codefendant with donald trump and Carlos De Oliveira apparently decided not to cooperate with jack smith and ended up being added to the indictment as a co defendant on thursday. Carlos has life changed for the worst a year and a half ago when he was promoted from valet to the head of maintenance that Donald Trumps florida residence. It was thanks to that promotion of donald trump six months later asked carlos liver to commit a crime for him according to the superseding indictment. After the Security Surveillance video at maralago was subpoenaed by federal prosecutors donald trump told him to delete the video, destroying evidence that federal prosecutors have already subpoenaed is already a crime of justice. They say he told Trump Employee for that the boss wanted the server deleted and he responded that he did not know how to do that he did not believe that he would have the rights to do that. He then insist to trump in play for that the boss wanted the server deleted and asked. It is very clear in that indictment that trump in play for is the prosecutors source for that conversation Trump Employee for literally talked his way out of an indictment after receiving a Target Letter by explaining to jack smith exactly what was said to him and exactly what he said and after Trump Employee for told that Story Carlos Got indicted there is a way out of that indictment for carlos only carlos can tell prosecutors about the single most important conversation mentioned in the superseding indictment the day after donald trump found out that they were getting a subpoena for the Security Camera footage the indictment says on June 23rd 2022 At 8 46 Pm trump called de oliveira and they spoke for approximately 24 minutes codefendant can walk out of this case tonight if he tells jack smith every word that he remembers from those 24 minutes he made his first trip to Federal Court today before a Magistrate Judge that released him on 100,000 dollar bond that did not actually require him to put up any money for that release. The judge gave him the standard restrictions for defendants in the Southern District of florida to not speak to any witnesses in the case and not leave the Southern District of florida conditions that do not apply to what donald trump is getting. Have been trying for walk to Television Coverage of his coworker getting arrested today from the comfort of his home presumably knowing that he will be the star witness against carlos. And donald trump the only possible witness in the case based on the evidence that we now know who could give even more devastating testimony than trump and play for its Carlos De Oliveira if he chooses to tell the truth about those 24 minutes on the phone with donald trump a phone call which they believe carlos chose to join a criminal conspiracy with donald trump carlos showed up in court today with a lawyer paid for by donald trump the first possible external sign that carlos changes his mind about which side he is on wouldbe by changing lawyers. That is what trump imply for dead before he decided to speak with jack smiths investigators. He got a Target Letter after watching donald trump marching to court to get arrested, and the very first thing he did was change lawyers useful tavares dumped the lawyer don trump was paying for got another lawyer and then apparently cooperated with jack smith and when the next indictment came out useful to various was not a codefendant but his story was told and full in the new indictment a story that prosecutors could only get from him, the current star witness Trump Employee for. Carlos is 56 years old and with good health east has at least 30 years of an active life ahead of him. He has to ask him self tonight how many of those years as he prepared to spend in federal prison for donald trump he has to ask himself will 77 year old donald trump take care of him financially for the next 30 years will Donald Trumps children continue to financially support him after donald trump is gone and donald trump asked ask him self how long can he count on carlos when employee for has already shown carlos and all other Trump Employees the to react to a Target Letter from jack smith carlos came to this country from portugal he has worked at maralago for approximately 20 years and cnn is reporting the member of his families couldnt even sleep last night with all thats going. On his family was pretty certain that he did not realize the consequences of what trump was telling him to do when he asked him to delete the security footage. And that he was probably just doing anything that trump told him to do he isnt familiar with how the government here works and he was probably just being loyal to his boss was paying his bill, person told cnn. The family feels like he got trapped Trump Employee for has shown carlos the way out of that trap, get rid of the trump lawyer and tell jack smith all about it and that 24 minute phone call with criminal defendant donald trump leading off our discussion tonight is from the host of the podcast courtside, also Andrew Weissmann joined for the former chief, the Eastern District of new york. Nyu law school in an and assembly c legal analyst. Andrew i want to get to your view of where and what we saw here its a way the Trump Employee for we, were referring to came around on this case. It gets a Target Letter it gets rid of the trump lawyer and it tells the story to jack smith. I think one of the things that the public is learning through this case is what happened in criminal cases involving groups of people whether big corporations or political case with people involved whether there is a hierarchy there is a real problem that youve got whether its a mob boss that has House Counsel whether it is a corporation that is council for individuals or former president that uses a pack to pay for council all of that is legal to have a Third Party Pay for a lawyer but the reason its legalize because everyone is banking on no pun intended that the lawyer is going to do their job his or her job which is be loyal to their actual client regardless whos paying for them. Very often the way that you control a witness is that Third Party Payer de facto has control because that persons pain and they have power and its a real problem in the legal system i saw when i was doing Organized Crime cases i saw when i was doing enron and everyone is seeing now to be clear though there are ethical lawyers who can do this but there also are examples and i have seen it firsthand where lawyers do not make that distinction and i think that the person who is paying has a real client interest and that is the problem that we are seeing and that is the reason its so important that someone has independent counsel giving them advice it is in their interest and not in the interest of Anyone Else Meal it seems inconceivable given our current state of Public Knowledge about donald trump and his lifetime practices it seems inconceivable that donald trump would pay an attorney for anyone. So anything other than serve Donald Trumps interest. Thats exactly right lawrence and i think to just zoom out for a moment. Donald trump tonight is facing the Triple Threat to the superseding indictment by jack smith a couple of days ago. Thats just in maralago were not talking about january 6th. But that Triple Threat here from maralago as a brandnew defendant new criminal charges against donald trump and most of all what you saw was very who is not charged and before we had an indictment with two people jack smith had it last week and then there is other witness and one of the things andrews talking about here is doctrine with crimes like this which is used primarily because one of the key reasons for it is to basically say look if you dont cooperate and tell us the truth we are going to throw the book at you. So its incentive for people to come forward particularly if they have lawyers that havent told them all the rest thats what it looks like what happened here. We dont know if hes formally cooperating with jack smith but boy hes not indicted in the other folks are indicted if you are one of these people or any other employee at maralago half of which seem to be on the witness list from the stolen documents trial you are looking at that and you are thinking i need to cooperate or otherwise im facing, really really serious sanctions for the next picking up on when they will be, saying if you are a Trump Employee and the fbi is talking to you, about conversations we have there is very strong reason that the other conversation they, have told him the truth. That is the dynamic that we have here. You have the january Six Committee at least one person has at least not flipped and has not provided enough damaging and we know that the boss is powerful, he has all the money and lawyers to pay for. He chinchillas vetted of this. You know that hes going to go down at the ship if he has to. Youre just imploring at maralago. Heres what i, know he was a truthful information that i can provide. I just dont want to go to prison. This is how it works. Its so many times through people that are far less physical in the world. Rjs are filled with people who got it down. Andrew weizmann as you look at the prosecution of this espionage an Obstruction Of Justice case, how much is that 24 minute phone call worse to jack smith to the prosecution of this case if he couldve came to tape of that phone call or if he could obtained it from his version of the contents of that phone call. How much is that worth to the prosecutors in that case. So one of the things that is largely messy. Not entirely but largely from the second obstruction part of the case because remember there is a first part of the obstruction that we are talking about the former president of the United States. Theyre two separate types of obstruction. I do think that the reason that they were looking to have the flip is because there is nothing like having a direct evidence from somebody that had the conversation with the defendant as opposed to hearing it secondhand so for instance you do have talavera saying that this is what the boss wants but you dont have himself on the stand saying that. You dont need to the evidence will still come in but if you had a Tape Recording or the direct evidence it would be very useful or working compared to what we expect we have is that mr. Corcoran is going to be heard talking about direct conversations and direct conversations, and employees talking about direct conversations in the former president. Its also not necessary to focus on the specific piece of evidence. Juries are going to be instructed and the governments want to talk about all of the evidence in the case as a totality rather than each little piece so i think the government is still in very good shape. Neil youre gonna have at least one witness testify here quoted delaware saying that the boss wants the video to lead it in a defense where you could put defendants in the trial and on the stand. Donald trump would of course take the Witness Stand and testify of course i never said that which would be helpful to the defense if he could possibly take the Witness Stand and say that he never said that. But like an all Trump Prosecutions it does seem impossible for donald trump to take the Witness Stand in this case. I think thats exactly right because that quote that youre reading comes from the superseding the indictment last week and superseding indictments are very common prosecutors use them all the time it just means investigators have found additional evidence like this quote probably coming from a new witness and alike. You are right to say that normally a criminal defendant can come in and say i didnt say that and take the stand in the like but if donald trump manages to have a lawyer with any competence. Thats an open question given the way that donald trump treats his lawyers but if he does that lawyers not gonna let donald trump take the stand because you have to worry that hes going to perdram self in the like so i suspect that wont happen but what will happen eloi as well as particular witness that gave that quote take the stand and weve been talking thus far as legal analysts saying likely to cooperate theyll see jail time and you know start cooperating but dont underestimate the Human Element here thats on both sides on the one side if you worked for donald trump, you probably dont like him thats the way his own cabinet talks about him and i expect that underlings that dont have sadness accra terese i expect to have a lot of animosity towards donald trump on the other hand though you have a guy that routinely threatens violence and his supporters threatened violence and andrew knows better than anyone hes not the president now but ive no doubt that someone is whispering to every one of these people at maralago hey just hold a line through next November Louviers if trump wins or another republican wins you will get pardoned dont worry about it this Cooperation Calculation i think is a very intricate and difficult one. Bradley as we go forward it seems what were seeing in the superseding indictment it is evidence that probably in all of jack smiths investigations once he has brought the initial indictment presumably against donald trump it doesnt mean that there isnt an ongoing pressure for Trump Associates to cooperate and flipping help jack smith. Yeah, absolutely. Who will be the next Trump Employee for the next person to come forw