Here tonight. Thanks for being here. Its gonna do it for me for now. But now its time for the last word with lawrence odonnell. But evening, lawrence. With evening, rachel. After we get through Andrew Weissmann and neal katyal talking about the case against donald trump, where it stands tonight. We are gonna get to the United Nations, which we dont do often enough here, to speak with our United Nations ambassador, because the United States becomes the head of the Security Council tomorrow. It is our term for the ambassadors term, i should say Linda Thomasgreenfield, u. N. Ambassador, fantastic. I was just talking about the u. S. Having this confounding, sort of dilemma, or decisionmaker, deciding whether or not its gonna keep its word on being really mad at uganda for their killed against law while simultaneously planning to go ahead with this hundreds of millions of dollars in funding that would we give them for anti age this year. With Linda Thomasgreenfield, which were gonna talk about that tonight, of course, the u. S. Has a, even a bigger love, or influence than we usually do. Its gonna be fascinating. And i will ask her your question when she gets here. God bless you, thank you so much, lawrence. Thank you, rachel. Thank you. The pressure is working, the pressure from special Prosecutor Jack Smith on Donald Trumps associates and codefendants, and possible coconspirators is working exactly as intended, which is very, very bad news for donald trump tonight. The star witness against donald trump, who we identified on this Program Thursday night as Trump Employee 4, apparently flipped and decided to testify against donald trump after after receiving a Target Letter from special Prosecutor Jack Smith. Donald trump has to be worried more than ever tonight that his associates will flip and start cooperating with jackson and as soon as they receive Target Letters from jack smith. Trump employee 4 could start a stampede of trump witnesses against donald trump in all of the criminal cases donald trump will be facing. Cnn reported that Trump Employee 4, who Yuscil Taveras, received a Target Letter from special Prosecutor Jack Smith after donald trump and walt nauta were indicted by jack smith in an espionage and Obstruction Of Justice indictment. Now, imagine working at maralago, and receiving a Target Letter from jack smith, after you have watched your coworker, walt nauta, marched into a Federal Courthouse in miami as a criminal defendant with donald trump. As a trump employee working at maralago, no matter how much you were shipped or feared donald trump when you watched him get arrested that day by jack smith, something should have happened to your confidence in Donald Trumps ability to protect you. The Superseding Indictment that jack smith filed on thursday, adding more criminal charges against donald trump, for his attempts to destroy evidence in the case tells the story of two trump employees who made two very different decisions. In dealing with jack smith. Yuscil taveras, who is identified and that Superseding Indictment only asked Trump Employee 4, clearly made the decision to cooperate with jack smith after watching his coworker, walt nauta, become a codefendant with donald trump. And Carlos De Oliveira he apparently decided not to cooperate with jackson. And ended up being added to the indictment as a codefendant on thursday. Carlos de oliveiras life changed for the worth a year and a half ago when he was promoted from valet to the head of maintenance at trumps florida residents. And it was thanks to that promotion that donald trump, six months later, and asked Carlos De Oliveira to commit a crime for him, according to the Superseding Indictment. After the Security Surveillance video at maralago was subpoenaed by federal prosecutors, donald trump told Carlos De Oliveira to delete the video, destroying evidence that federal prosecutors have already subpoenaed is a very clear federal crime of Obstruction Of Justice. The Superseding Indictment says, de oliveira told Trump Employee 4 that the boss wanted the server deleted. Trump employee 4 responded that he would not know how to do that, and that he did not believe that he would have the rights to do that. De oliveira then insisted to Trump Employee 4 that the boss wanted the server deleted, and asked, what are we gonna do . It is very clear, in that indictment, that Trump Employee 4, Yuscil Taveras, is the prosecutors source for that conversation. Trump employee 4 literally talked his way out of an indictment after receiving a Target Letter by explaining to jack smith exactly what was said to him, and exactly what he said. And after Trump Employee 4 told that story, Carlos De Oliveira got indicted. There is a way out of that indictment for Carlos De Oliveira. Only Carlos De Oliveira can tell prosecutors about the single most important conversation mention in the Superseding Indictment. The day after donald trump found out that federal prosecutors were getting a subpoena for the Security Camera footage, the indictment says on june 23rd, 2022, at 8 46 pm, trump called de oliveira and they spoke for approximately 24 minutes. Codefendant de oliveira can walk out of this case tonight if he tells jack smith every word that he remembers from those 24 minutes. Carlos de oliveira made his first trip to Federal Court today for a ten minute appearance before a Magistrate Judge who released him on a 100,000 dollar bond, but did not actually require him to put up any money for that release. The judge gave de oliveira the standard restrictions for defendants in the Southern District of florida to not speak to any witnesses in the case, and to not leave the Southern District of florida, conditions that do not apply to the very favorable Special Treatment his co defendant donald trump is getting. Trump employee 4, Yuscil Taveras, watched the Television Coverage of his coworker, Carlos De Oliveira, getting arrested today from the comfort of his whole, presumably, knowing that he will be the star witness against Carlos De Oliveira, walt nauta, and donald trump. The only possible witness in the case based on the evidence that we now know, oh good give even more devastating testimony than Trump Employee 4s Carlos De Oliveira. If he chooses to tell the truth about those 24 minutes on the phone with donald trump, the phone call during which prosecutors believe Carlos De Oliveira chose to join a criminal conspiracy with donald trump. Carlos de oliveira showed up in court today with a lawyer paid for by donald trump, the first possible external sign that Carlos De Oliveira changes his mind about which side hes on would be changing lawyers. Thats what Trump Employee 4, Yuscil Taveras, did before he decided to speak with jack smiths investigators. He got a Target Letter after watching donald trump and Walt Nauta March Into Court to get arrested, and the very first thing he did was change lawyers. Yuscil taveras dumped the lawyer donald trump was paying for, got another lawyer, and then apparently cooperated with jack smith. And when the next indictment came out Yuscil Taveras was not a codefendant. But his story was told in full in the new indictment, the story that prosecutors could only get from him. Their current star witness, Trump Employee 4. Carlos de oliveira is 56 years old, with good health, he has at least 30 years of an active life ahead of him. He has to ask himself tonight how many of those years will he be prepared to spend in federal prison for trump. He has to ask himself tonight, will 77 year old donald trump take care of him financially for the next 30 years . Will Donald Trumps children continue to financially support him after donald trump is gone . And donald trump has to ask himself tonight, how long can he count on Carlos De Oliveira, when Trump Employee 4, yuscil ta has already shown Carlos De Oliveira and all other trump employees the safest way to react to a Target Letter from jack smith. Carlos de oliveira came to this country from portugal. He has worked at maralago for approximately 20 years. Cnn is reporting that members of his family, quote, couldnt even sleep last night with all whats going on. De oliveira thes family was pretty certain that he did not realize the consequences of what trump was telling him to do, when he asked him to delete the security footage. And that given his lack of money, de oliveira was probably just doing anything that trump told him to do. He isnt familiar with how the government here works, and he was probably just being loyal to his boss who was paying his bills, the person told cnn. The family feels like he got trapped. Trump employee 4, Yuscil Taveras, as shown Carlos De Oliveira the way out of that trap, get rid of the trump lawyer, and tell jack smith all about that 24minute phone call with a criminal defendant donald trump. Leading off our discussion tonight is neal, former acting u. S. Solicitor general and host of the Podcast Courtside with neal katyal. Also with us, bradley moss, a National Security attorney who represents working on the intelligence community. And Andrew Weissmann is joining us, former fbi general counsel, and former chief of the Criminal Division in the Eastern District of new york. Hes a professor in practice at nyu law school, and msnbc legal analyst. Andrew, i want to get your view of where, what we saw here, with the new reporting that we have about the way Trump Employee 4, as we were referring to him thursday night, came around on this case, gets a Target Letter, gets rid of the trump lawyer, tells the story to jackson. I think one of the things that the public is learning through this case is what happens in criminal cases involving groups of people, whether it be corporations, whether its a political case with groups of people involved, where there is a hierarchy. There is a real problem when youve got, whether its a mob boss who has House Counsel for underlings, whether its a corporation that has counsel for individuals, whether its a former president who uses a pac to pay for council, all of that, it is legal to have a Third Party Pay for a lawyer. But the reason its legal is because everyone is banking on, no pun intended, that the lawyer is going to do their job, his or her job, which is be loyal to their actual client, regardless who is paying for them. But very often, the way that you control a witness is that Third Party Payer de facto has control because that person is paying, and they have power. And its a real problem in the legal system. I thought when i was prosecuting Organized Crime cases. I saw it when i was prosecuting enron, and everyone is seeing it now. To be clear, though, there are ethical ethical lawyers who can do this. But there are also examples, and i have seen it firsthand, where lawyers do not make that distinction, and they think of the person who is paying as their real client in interest. And thats the problem that we are seeing and thats the reason it is so important that somebody has independent counsel giving them advice thats in their interest, and not in the interest of anyone else. Neal katyal, it seems inconceivable, given our current state of Public Knowledge about donald trump and his lifetime practices, it seems inconceivable that donald trump would pay an attorney for anyone, to do anything other than serve Donald Trumps interests. Thats exactly right, lawrence. And i think if you zoom out for a moment, i mean, donald trump tonight is facing a Triple Threat due to this Superseding Indictment by jack smith a couple of days ago. And that is just on maralago. Were not even talking about january 6th and what jack smith might do their, whatever. But that Triple Threat here from maralago is a brandnew defendant, new criminal charges against donald trump, and most of all, this new witness, Yuscil Taveras, who is not charged. And, you know, before we had an indictment with two people, donald trump and walt nauta, his valet. Jack smith added last week Carlos De Oliveira, as you said. And then, there is this other witness, Yuscil Taveras. And, you know, one of the things andrew is talking about here is the doctrine of crimes, particularly the conspiracy doctrine, which is used primarily, one of the key reasons for it is to actually flip witnesses. It is to basically say, look, if you dont cooperate and tell us the truth, Yuscil Taveras, we are gonna throw the book at you. So, its an incentive for people to come forward, particularly if they have lawyers who havent, you know, told them or reprised them of all the risks. And it looks like thats what happened here. We dont know if Yuscil Taveras is formally cooperating with jackson. But, boy, he is not and i did. And the other folks are indicted. And if you are one of these people, or frankly any other employee at maralago, half of which, seems to be now in the witness list for the documents next year, you are looking at that and thinking, i need to cooperate. Otherwise, ill be facing really, really serious sanctions for the next untold number of years. And bradley moss, to pick up on what neal was just saying, if you are a trump employee, and the fbi is talking to you, or jack smiths investigators are talking to you about conversations you had. You have now a very strong reason to suspect or believe that the other person in that conversation has told them the truth. I mean, that is what the dynamic you have here. You have, one tells them exactly what happened in the conversation. The other one who doesnt. But one who doesnt gets indicted. Its a dilemma that every College Student learns in their second year. Its the same thing with Cassidy Hutchinson in the january six committee. We are saying the same thing now with mr. Taveras. You know now that at least one person has, if not flip, at least provided very damaging information against, the boss. You know that the boss is powerful, has all the money and lawyers, that hes paid for your lawyers. Hes trying to squirrel his way out of this. He knows that walt nauta is gonna go down with that ship, if he has to. But you are just a simple employee at maralago. You know that everybody else is gonna write you out at this point, if it means they can save their own self. What are you gonna do . Youre gonna get your own lawyer, talk to the feds, say heres what i know. He was truthful information i can provide. I just dont want to go to prison. And thats it all, this works for so many time for people who are far less visible in the world and donald trump, and his organization, and it happens