All he wanted to do was impede a process thats, well, its stated there in the constitution. Thats all he wanted. Like a bank robber, all i wanted to do was rob a bank. Take all the money. This is exactly what he is charged for, and he admitted it. Yeah. You know, watching mr. Lauro and political defenders like Lindsey Graham, well talk about him in a minute, attempt to defend donald trump over the last couple days, its clear they dont have a lot to work with. Mr. Lauro is a real attorney, unlike some of the other attorneys trump had around him. He was a prosecutor. If he cant seem to come up with a cogent theory of the case of why donald trump was acting legally around the 2020 election in the days leading up to january 6th, because the evidence in the indictment, the allegations in that indictment are so overwhelming, theyre Hopscotching Around, hoping to find something. Nothing is hitting yet. Well, of course, theyre not going to find anything legally because theyre boxed in legal legally. Theyre going to lose legally. Theyre trying to create something for chinese religious cults that Run Conspiracy websites that maybe will catch hold. Something to catch hold on fox news and other networks where they can create an alternative set of facts. Of course, none of this, none of this has anything to do with defending donald trump legally. Right. Because, again, he started out talking about the First Amendment. Okay, thats fine. Something youd do in a political debate. Legally, he knows that holds no water. Again, at the top of the indictment, what do we have . We have jack smith saying, hey, anybodys free to say what they want to say about the election, even if they want to lie thatri. Thats his First Amendment right. Thats in the first couple paragraphs. They start by talking about the First Amendment. It doesnt hold water, and its such a stupid argument if you actually read this indictment, which a lot of people in fox news dont. They doodle on it. You know why . They dont want to read it. The Editorial Page of the Washington Post goes full, and they went full trump today. Never go full trump. You Never Go Full Trump. They blame it on the democrats. Willie, youre not going to believe this. They say joe biden is old. Hmm. So you have all of this going on, and then you have Lindsey Graham who is a lawyer saying, i dont trust juries now. Huh. Here, you have people who said, we dont trust American Democracy after donald trump loses, and now fox, some of the people on fox news, Lindsey Graham, some republicans are now saying, we dont trust the jury system. We dont trust American Democracy because trump lost. We dont trust the jury system because donald trump stole Nuclear Secrets and is being held to account for it. Donald trump tried to steal an election. They all know he tried to steal it. Lindsey graham said, im off this train. Then the three people and the hound dog chased him around Washington National reagan airport, and he said, okay, well, im back on the train. Its so bizarre, man. Its so bizarre. Theyre willing to trash every American Institution for a guy thats never been loyal to them. Lindsey graham said yesterday that donald trump cant get a fair trial in washington because of the jury pool in washington. Remember, in the e. Jean carroll case, the Defamation Case, when it was decided, marco rubio said that the jury system is a joke. Another lawyer saying the jury system in the United States is a joke. This is the way it works. Youre tried in the place where youre alleged to have committed a crime. As e. Jean carrolls attorney pointed out to us later on morning joe, those jurors were not from chelsea and tribeca. Some of them were from manhattan, but they were from other places around new york. Its how the jury system works. What youre hearing is fear from the politicians, that if they dont rally to Donald Trumps defense, even on this, even after reading this indictment, that theyre going to lose. Theyre going to lose his voters, and they might lose their own power. But after reading this, mika, after reading, people who work for donald trump, page after page after page of testimony, people that donald trump brought in to his inner circle, people that donald trump selected for Cabinet Members as his white house counsel, all saying the same thing. That donald trump tried to steal the election. Even after that . What is worth it for these people . What is it worth for the Wall Street JournalEditorial Page . What is it worth for Lindsey Graham to try to excuse an attempted coup . Whats that worth . I just i must say, sometimes, mika, you get frustrated because politically im too pragmatic. Right. I bend over backwards too hard to understand too many peoples views. You do. It frustrates you. Ive got to say, in this case, i theres no getting this. Ive been a member of congress. Its not worth this. Its not worth betraying your country. Its not worth Turning A Blind Eye to a coup. Its not worth going to the best schools in america, getting one of the best editorial jobs in america, reading this and knowing better and trying to blame Donald Trumps attempted coup, coup attempt on democrats that want to use this in an election, on the Biden Crime Family, on joe biden being old . Come on, man. Youre better than that. I know because i know you. Because ive been reading your work my whole life. Because i served with some of you in congress through difficult times. Youre better than this. Dont listen to me. Dont listen to the Washington Post or the New York Times or msnbc or cnn. Dont listen to podcasts. Just listen to the people who worked for donald trump. The people that donald trump selected himself. The defendants Vice President who personally stood to remain in office and gain by the defendants ticket, whom the defendant wanted him to rig the election. Mike pence refused. To the Senior Leaders of the Justice Department who stood to gain, they wouldnt have been acting Attorney Generals in the second term, they would have been the attorney general. They would have run the Justice Department if only they had gone along with Donald Trumps lie. Senior white house attorneys, the people who defended him when he used his office, when he used his office to ignore congress authorization of weapons to ukraine. Said, no, zelenskyy, you need to give me political dirt on my opponent, or im not sending you the weapons. They defended him through that. Here, every single senior white house attorney told him he was wrong, that he could not overturn the election and he needed to leave. Senior staffers on his reelection campaign. I mean, come on this isnt a liberal conspiracy. You can read your chinese religious cult websites all you want, but you know theyre lying to you. You know Kevin Mccarthy is lying to you. You know theyre all running scared, but scared from what . They are they what are they running from thats more frightening than an attempted coup against the United States government . Where cops were brutalized, four eventually died. American democracy smeared globally because of one former Reality Tv Host wanting to maintain power and become an authoritarian leader here in the United States. Whats worth that . Id say nothing. Absolutely nothing. And, yet, they continue to march america toward the cliff. Yesterday in washington, d. C. , for the first time ever, a former president of the United States was arraigned for his alleged efforts to subvert American Democracy. Just a few blocks away from where he took the Oath Of Office and from where his supporters carried out an unprecedented Act Of Violence just a few years later, donald trump pleaded not guilty to four Felony Charges stemming from his actions after the 2020 election. The charges, conspiracy to defraud the United States. Conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding. Obstruction of an attempt to obstruct an official proceeding. And conspiracy against rights. No cameras were allowed in the courtroom yesterday. There were only around 100 people present. Trump in a blue suit and red tie was seated about 10 feet away from the man leading the prosecution against him, special counsel jack smith. When the former president s lawyers introduced themselves to the Magistrate Judge, they referred to their client as President Trump. The judge then referred back to him as mr. Trump. A reminder that everyone is equal in the court of law. The former president himself spoke only a few times, mostly to acknowledge he was aware of his rights. He was asked to state his name and age, to which he responded, donald j. Trump, john, and 77. Most of the arraignment typical in nature, but before trump agreed to the conditions of his release, the judge did give him an unusual warning. She reminded trump that it is a crime to try to influence a juror, to threaten or bribe a witness, or to retaliate against someone providing information to prosecutors. When asked if he understood that violating those terms could result in his bond being revoked, the former president said simply, yes. Lets bring in the host of way too early, White House Bureau chief at politico and author of at the big lie, jonathan lemire. Former legal attorney joyce vance. Justice correspondent ken dilanian. And founder of the conservative website the bulwark, charlie sykes. Ken, you were at the courthouse in an adjoining overflow room. Tell us what took place inside the courtroom and the relationship 20 feet or so apart between jack smith and donald trump in that room. Good morning, willie. Yeah, that was my one advantage from watching on video in the media overflow room, is that i could see jack smiths face. The reporters in the courtroom were behind him. I watched jack smith, who was sitting behind his Prosecution Team in the first row as donald trump entered the courtroom. Every other face turned to point toward the former president , of course, but jack smith did not. He stared straight ahead. He made a point of not looking at donald trump as he moved his way toward the Defense Table and sat down with his lawyers. I thought that was very interesting. Because there was a lot of observations that smith seemed to stare down trump at the arraignment in miami. He, of course, looked at trump at other times in the proceeding when he was talking. Just in general, i thought this was a much more sober and serious and even tense atmosphere at this arraignment than the one down in miami. Down in miami, the Magistrate Judge there was pretty loose, was making jokes, and the other interesting thing is that donald trump didnt say a word at the arraignment in miami. His lawyer answered on his behalf and pled not guilty. Yesterday, donald trump was essentially questioned, even grilled by the magistrate, asking him the standard questions that you would ask a defendant, you know, your name, your date of birth, and then, you know, sort of going through the list of charges and the potential penalties, which in some cases are 20 years or more for each count, and then giving him a series of instructions as conditions for release. The most important one she said was that he should not commit any crimes while free. Willie, as you said, that unusual instruction that he should not bribe or intimidate a witness. Well, i talked to lawyers afterwards who said that everything she said in terms of those instructions was standard for a defendant in washington, d. C. , except for that one. They hadnt heard that before. That was interesting. Also interesting was that the magistrate kept folks waiting, including mr. Trump, for 20 minutes. There was a period of sort of stone silence as the smith team sat at their table across from trump and his lawyers at their table. Todd blanche, one of trumps lawyers, appeared to be conferring with mr. Trump, reading what looked like the indictment and possibly explaining the indictment to mr. Trump. He seemed, you know, animated, inquisitive. People in the courtroom said he was looser perhaps than the last one. When he was asked his name, donald j. Trump, and he added john. When asked his age, he said, seven, seven, for 77. Ive covered trials in that courtroom and others that look exactly like it. For me, it was bracing. It was jarring to see former president sitting at the Defense Table in that courtroom. Next hearing scheduled for august 28th, three weeks from now, when a trial date will be set. There will be a lot of haggling and negotiating back and forth about when thatll be. Thats obviously critical to see whether itll get in and completed before the election. Joyce vance, i want to ask you about that admonition from the judge that ken mentioned. She told trump it is a crime to influence a juror, threaten or bribe a witness, or retaliate against someone working with prosecutors. Did it strike you . It is unusual, willie. The only time i can remember hearing a warning like that at arraignment is when i prosecuted someone who had firebombed the house of a witness, coming very close to injuring small children as part of the activity in a very violent drug organization. In that instance, the judge did admonish the defendant at arraignment. Not only that you can have your bond revoked and go back into custody if you commit new crimes, that part is standard, but talked with him specifically about taking any action against witnesses against him. So what comes to mind when you see a judge doing this with donald trump is, shes a good judge. She is being very careful. If she gets to a point down the road where there is a hearing about revoking trumps bond, she wants it on the record that she gave very specific advice that there could be no efforts to try to influence witnesses, jurors, anyone else involved in the case. She was dotting her is and crossing her ts. So let me ask joyce really quickly, im just curious, and im just curious. Donald trump hears that from the judge. He then goes out and, you know, says this process is a scam, you know, his usual witch hunt, scam, stuff like that. I dont know how judges, federal judges in alabama would respond to that where you practiced, but where i practiced in Northwest Florida, i suspect judge collier or judge vincent would throw my client in jail and call me in and dress me down and say, so you have a client that i admonish in my courtroom. He walks outside and says im conducting a witch hunt here. Im going to let him sit in jail until you can go in and i can tell you in Northwest Florida the judges would say, counsel, if you cant control your client, get off the case. If he says it again, im going to put you in jail. Now, i think for people that practice in Northwest Florida, thats not that much of a stretch. I mean, so im really surprised that any defendant is allowed to say that a judge is conducting a witch hunt and that the entire judicial system is a scam. So, joe, your courts in what we call lower alabama, and my court is in alabama. Look, you know, theyre not pleased by this kind of behavior. I also have the benefit of having started my career as a lawyer in washington and practiced in front of these courts where they do offer a little bit more room to ramble for defendants in these sorts of political cases. Heres the reason. I dont think any of us will like the reason, but its something that exists. Donald trump, who is now mr. Trump in court, is still a candidate to be president of the United States, and in the course of his campaign for that office, he has certain First Amendment rights. I think what the judges will do here is they will stand well back from the line where there could be any sort of litigation over whether they violated his rights. But i think that theres still a line there that Trump Cannot Cross. This sort of rhetoric that were all used to him, you know, expressing about witch hunts, that might cost him some jurors. If this case goes to trial during the voir dire process, there may well will witnesses who will be influenced by his comments and wont be able to set aside what theyve heard come from the former president s mouth. He may lose witnesses he would have liked to have had on the jury. Some of the officers who helped defend the capitol during the January 6th Insurrection were present for trumps arraignment yesterday. One, officer harry dunn, who joins us now. He is the recipient of the president ial citizens medal for his exemplary contributions to our democracy surrounding january 6th. He is also the author of the forthcoming book entitled, Standing My Ground, which will be released this october. Officer dunn, y