Her from office. Basically because he can. State attorney will join me tonight. Also new details on a possible fourth indictment against donald trump in georgia. Which could come in a matter of days. What fani willis could charge him with. Plus, who his codefendants might be. Another big win for democracy. Proposed constitutional change in ohio meant to thwart the will of the public on abortion and other major issues loses by a mile. Clearly we have a lot to get to tonight as you can see. But we begin with an alarming genuinely frightening news. Frightening item of news regarding violent threats against the president of the United States, joe biden. Vice president Kamala Harris and other elected officials. Threats that appear to be tied to Donald Trumps mounting legal peril. Threats came from a utah man named craig d. Robertson, who will not get to plead his case in court because he was shot and killed today by the fbi as they were attempting to execute an Arrest Warrant. But what he did to earn that Arrest Warrant is chilling. On monday, robertson posted about president bidens trip to utah which took place today. The post included a thinly veiled threat of assassination. And it was far from an isolated incident by robertson. According to charging documents, the fbi had been investigating him since march, Vice President harris, merrick garland, alvin bragg, new York State Attorney general Latitia James as well as the investigating fbi agents. Some of the threats were very graphic and multiple posts included pictures of his various weapons. As well as whats called a gilly suit that enabled soldiers to camouflage themselves in the grass. Robertson, who was 75, described himself in his posts as a maga trumper, and even pointed out in some of the posts that the prosecutors and ags he was verbally attacking are prosecuting trump. It is chilling stuff, but not surprising. Because when it comes to the use of violence to defend trump, we have seen with our own eyes that that is a real thing. And even a goto for trumps most militant supporters. Many of whom are sitting in prison right now for attacking the u. S. Capitol on january 6th, 2021. Last weeks indictment against trump for his attempts to overturn the 2020 election made it clear that he tried to take advantage of the january 6th violence to further those efforts. In fact, one of his cocon speak tors ominously proposed maybe invoking the Insurrection Act to sick u. S. Troops and arm militias on u. S. Citizen. Extremist groups like the proud boys were waiting for trump to invoke the Insurrection Act so that they could be his militias. While the threat from these groups has seemed to die down after all the january 6th prosecutions, Many National security analysts say the threat that keeps them up at night now days is the threat from lone actors, like this guy in utah. New analysis published this week shows that federal charges involving threats to Public Officials has spiked in the last year. And its just the latest reminder that trump and his social media posts and his rally speeches, while he can sometimes seem like a joke and a buffoon to many of us, he still is dangerous as ever. Lets not forget that in june a january 6th defendant who was arrested near former president Barack Obamas house with multiple guns and loads of ammo showed up after trump posted a screen shot that included obamas address. A post that the defendant reposted. Joining me now is jim cavanaugh, former atf special agent in charge, author of murder and passion in the music city. George conway, conservative lawyer and contributor to the Washington Post. Thank you both for being here. And i do want to start with you, jim. You know, there is theres a lot of National Security analysis that says that the threat from the far right has morphed from proud boys, oath keepers, 3 ers that kind of thing, to this individual lone actor, like we saw in utah. Is that what keeps you up at night . And when you took a look at this charging document, what were your thoughts . Well, first, joy, the fbi did a good job staying on this guy since march. You know, taking it very seriously, bringing their team to bear this morning. What you look at on these threats and i looked those up with my agents before, busted one up against president elect obama years ago by neonazis right here in tennessee, and they were going to kill him, try to kill him with rifles like this and shoot 88 black children in the school. Back then, people didnt believe someone would shoot children in the school, but we have since seen they will. We believe they would have. But any way, he had the ability with the weapons. He had the desire, which he stated clearly he wanted to clear the president and Vice President , Attorney General and the da bragg and with the president going to utah he had the opportunity, ability, desire and opportunity. You have to act. So the fbi had to act. And they acted this morning. Most likely i dont know exactly they havent released everything, but i was the special agent in charge. I ran divisions. This is what we would do in a case like this, joy. We wound send in the fbi s. W. A. T. Team from the Salt Lake Division was deployed and called him on the phone or on a hailer and said we have a search warrant. Were fbi. You need to come out. And he may have, you know, stuck his gun out the window and they shot him. Or could have been a flashbang deployed and then they shot him. But nevertheless, witnesses say they heard two loud, large bangs. So there wasnt a lot of big lengthy confrontation. And he had already told the agents, you know, if you want to talk to me again, bring a warrant. So hes being threatening the agents. Hes being forceful against the agents and the government. Hes an antigovernment crack pot. And we dealt with many of them. Theyre armed in teeth. They want to fight it out. They want to die. They want to, you know, espouse all this crazy stuff. Its sad. But the goal for the agents is just to arrest them. Unfortunately he resisted with violence by either pointing the rifle or shooting at them and they had to respond because they dont need to be killed doing their duty. Let me just read you, jim, real quick what the New York Times wrote in a piece called trump support eers violent rhetoric. Experts on Political Violence warn that attacks against people or constitutions become more likely when elected fishls or prominent Media Figures are able to issue threats or calls for violence with immunity and aggressive language does not directly end in physical harm, it creates a dangerous atmosphere the idea of violence becomes more accepted if such rhetoric is left unchecked. We know you were very much in the waco situation in the 90s which there was a lot of heated rhetoric about bill clinton and gun confiscations. How does the atmosphere now and trumps rhetoric and his allys rhetoric compare to that kind of an atmosphere back then . Well, youre exactly right, joy. For years this rhetoric was the Lunatic Fringe. Just after the Civil Rights Era ended, we had a very heavy Lunatic Fringe. The birmingham bombing killing the four little girls, bull connor killing civil rights workers and people trying to register voters in mississippi, medgar evers, we could go on and on about all that violence. That talk was permeated to society. But after all that, that stuff was died down and everybody pushed it back. It was the Lunatic Fringe talk like that and our politicians, you know, were against that. We heard many comments from Republican Leaders over the years that said, no, bush 43 after the 9 11 attack when he stood up for the muslim community. But you know, we pushed the Lunatic Fringe talk to the corner where it belongs. When you support that, if youre any politician, either side of the aisle, supports violent rhetoric, against government employees, federal officers, years ago the nra took out an ad in the Washington Post against atf and said theyre jack booted thugs. That gives people a license to shoot. Yes, absolutely. That has existed, george, its a good point that you make. It was the dixie cats during the medgar evers area. Its now migrated from the Democratic Party into the Republican Party. Let me play from trump voters in New Hampshire. This is New Hampshire, not even in dixie. Take a listen. Thats nazi germany hitler. You cant silence your political opponent because you dont agree with them. Joe biden should be in prison for his bribes. The vote was stolen. I believe it. In my heart. Remember, they blew up one of the Election Quarters where they kept all of the dominion machines. Why did that blow up . Donald trump were to be found guilty, by a jury, where do you see this going . Civil war. Civil war. We cant live together obviously. If he wants me to protect him, im going to go there and let him no ill do it. These are senior citizens, this guy was 75 in utah. All it takes is one man with one gun and one incident and you kill a few people. And thats the scary thats the scary aspect of it. Donald trump creates a Permission Structure these people would not otherwise have to do this. He basically endorses this. He encourages it. He engages in what social scientists call power ellipsis, the use of words that have two meanings. Thats what he told people on january 6th. Lets fight. You need to fight for your country. He uses apock lip tick rhetoric. People will be very upset. Encouraging the violence and saying i didnt mean that literally. They know what he means. That sort of thing empowers these people. These people who think that theyre they feel put upon and that theyre helpless and they really are because theyre not very smart and theyre very isolated. But he empowers them. He makes them part of an army. And that is exceedingly dangerous. In this indictment his spelling was quite poor. He seemed to feel like he understood the First Amendment and said he can post these Death Threats and come and get me basically was his attitude toward the fbi. This is my free speech right. Sounds like donald trump. That is so embedded in somebody so far from power, how can the power eradicate this if none of the leaders are willing to say about it . I cant imagine a republican leader today saying you shouldnt be threatening the president of the United States. Right. They wont do it because they themselves fear these people. Remember, Lindsey Graham said a few words back in January Of 2021 that were not exactly favorable to donald trump and he was accosted at airports. These people are afraid. Liz cheney, while she was still in congress had to go around with the security guard, with a security team, that she paid out with her own money all around wyoming. I mean, republicans are not just intimidated. Republican politicians are not just intimidated by voters at the ballot box, but they are intimidated by these people who they know have weapons. Is there anyone with the Moral Authority to talk the Republican Party writ large, the voters down . No. I dont think so at this point. I dont think i think anyone who crosses trump, who contradicts him, is then castigated. And treated as, oh, hes just another liberal. Hes pro biden. Everything is Black And White in that regard. And its terrifying. It is terrifying. Jim cavanaugh, george conway, thank you both. Well figure this out, i hope. Up next on the reidout trump lashes out Fulton County fani willis as she prepares to announce indictments as early as next week potentially. The reidout continues after this. Week potentially. The reidout continues after this who are our ancestors . I know we have them. When i found that Immigration Record on ancestry®, it just changed everything. I feel like a time traveler. Socks, underwear and tshirts are the most requested items in homeless shelters. Bombas was founded to help. So for everyone you buy, we donate one. One purchased. One donated. Its a tangible act of kindness for those who need it most. Distributed by 3500. 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Trump is lashing out at her as his fourth indictment looms. They say theres a young woman, a young racist in atlanta. Racist. And they say, i guess they say that she was after a certain gang and she ended up having an affair with the head of the gang or gang member. And this is a person that wants to indictment me. She has a lot of problems but she wants to indictment me to try to run for some other office. Okay. Okay. So all of that was bogus and completely untrue. But lets just pause on the part where he accuses willis of having an affair with a gang member. Why would he think that or say that . And why would he put that baseless claim in a campaign ad released last week . Bidens newest, atlanta d. A. , fani willis. She got caught hiding a relationship with a gang member she was prosecuting. Again, bogus. Baseless and completely untrue. Moments ago, nbc obtained an email sent from fani willis so our staff responding to the trump ad. She slammed the ad as derogatory and false and urges her staff to remain focussed. The ad tries to add legitimacy to the claim why sourcing a Rolling Stone article from january, written by music and culture writer, andre g. Here is the article which talks about how fani willis, back in 2019 served as Defense Attorney to an atlantabased rapper. Here is the contest. Mondo is a cofounder young thug who now Prosecutor Fani Willis indicted along with multiple members of the crew in a sweeping rico case that alleges they are not a rap crew, they are a gang. See where this is going . Note again that willis was not mondos prosecutor at the time as the trump ad claims. She was his defense lawyer. The Rolling Stone piece does not say or even suggest that the two had a relationship outside of their professional one. Meaning, trump is doing what trump does. Taking a fragment of something that is true, that fani willis knows yslmondo in order to defame an discredit her in a way that is particular to her being a woman and a black woman at that. And with trump, its rarely clear whether he actually believed the lies he tells, history has shown us that hell believe anyone who confirms his silly putty logic and tells him what he wants to hear. In this case, trump isnt the only one peddling this false claim about fani willis. A trumpsupporting Hip Hop Podcaster named d. J. Academics has a role in spreading this lie as well. He promoted the claim on extwitter today. Here he is with trump at a ufc fight in april. We on the show are not saying d. J. Academic played the john eastman, Rudy Giuliani role with this lie trump is adopted. Joining me now is paul butler, former federal prosecutor. And the aforementioned andre g. , staff writer for Rolling Stone.