Already said on tuesday, for example, im going to say whatever i want. Defended trump gets ground rules from the judge. He starts at a level of miss trusts. She treated trump like a truant child. The dramatic day in Federal Court and the new protective order to stop indicted ex president from intimidating witnesses and trying his case in the media. There are hundreds of recordings with witnesses that we talked to outside the grand jury. I felt like you could hear a pin drop in the courtroom. Then the conservative case that donald trump could be disqualified from office. Why Merrick Garlands announcement of a Special Counsels infuriating biden attackers. And hes right. There is no Ongoing Investigation of hunter biden. And senator obrien shots on the expanding rescue and recovery going on in hawaii. This is going to take years to recover. When all in starts, right now. Grieving from you in new york, uncut chris hayes. Donald trumps defense team has their first hearing but the judge whos going to oversee what many have called, i think positive plausibly, the most important criminal criminal case in american history. Ive got to say, based on todays hearing, judge Tanya Chutkan his showed herself to be really impressive, in many ways exactly what you would you would want out of a judge in this position. The eastbound Special Counsel jack smiths prosecutors sought a protective order covering any evidence brought forth during the discovery process. That the evidence they hand over to don trumps attorneys. Essentially what they want to do is make sure that trump cannot then take some of that material and publicly weaponize the information if he learns about potential witnesses as a means and intimidating them or otherwise tampering with the prosecutions case. Judge chutkan did ultimately grant protective order covering some but crucially not all of the information the ex president will see during discovery. It was a victories project smiths team because they didnt get everything they were asking. Something of a prebattle to trumps lawyers arguments, judge chutkan announced at the start of the hearing, quote, mr. Trump like every american has the First Amendment rights to free speech but that rain is not absolute. Later elaborating to the ex president s attorney, quote, if that means that he cant say exactly what he wants to say about people who may be witnesses in this case, that how its going to have to be. And, quote, he is a criminal defendant. He is going to have restrictions, like every single other defendant. The trump team tried to argue those limitations might hamper his Political Campaign, the judge may clear the Political Considerations were fully outside the scope of her responsibility. Quote, the effects of my order on a Political Campaign are not before me and will not influence my decision here. This is a criminal trial. I cannot and i will not factor into my decisions the effect its going to have on a Political Campaign for either side. At the same time judge chutkan denied part of the governments request for a protective order covering all Discovery Material in this case, calling it overly broad. Kyle, cheney in a political report she said, quote, i dont want this order to be overly inclusive. I dont want to just issue a blanket pact of order over information that is not sensitive. The Hearing Ending ended with judge chutkan issuing a warning that any public statements that night create what she called a Carnival Atmosphere around the court or intimidate witnesses or prejudice potential jurors will only result in the case going to trial even faster. That was largely interpreted correctly as a shot at team trump who want to delay this case as long as possible. Even if Special Counsel jack smith believes it is in the Public Interest to do the exact off opposite. Here is, talking from the day he learned the indictment. In this case, my office will seek a speedy trial so the evidence could be tested in the court and judged by a jury of citizens. In the meantime, i must emphasize that the indictment is only an allegation that the defendant must be presumed innocent until Proven GuiltyBeyond A Reasonable Doubt in a court of law. When you look at how the proposed calendar of the trial is going to unfold, it is clear to me, and i think should be clear to everyone, we should get a consensus on this, the earlier this whole ideal ordeal unfold the better it is for everyone involved, both the defendant and the public, both of whom have interests here. So right now prosecutors have asked for the trial to start in january 2nd. Thats less than two weeks before the iowa caucus. I would hope that reasonable people can agree, not folks inside the maga cult, but everyone else, that donald trump should be tried before the general election in november. The point of elections, including Primary Elections, is to judge a Candidates Fitness for office. The public has a right to know whether donald trump, the current public in front runner, is guilty or innocent before they go to the polls to vote for a guy who was accused of these extremely serious grave crimes. And if trump is truly innocent, as he claims, he should want to be vindicated as soon as possible, take this shadow away, this thing looming over him. So if you take that into account, if he should be tried before the election, well then, lets look at the calendar. What time frame would be fairest . Its going to be either the beginning of the primary process, in january, as jack smith has proposed, which would give most republican primary voters across the country the chance to weigh a potential Felony Conviction or acquittal before they go to the polls. Or, if you wait later, its going to be smack dab in the middle of Primary Election season, after its too late for many republicans to consider a verdict at all because they already cast their votes. Think about it this way, if youre the Republican National committee, do you want this verdict sooner rather than later . Lets just say, for the sake of argument, donald trump will be found guilty at this trial. Would the rnc rather have that happen while there is still time for voters to choose someone else . Or at the end of the primary process when its all wrapped up . Oh, hes guilty. Is that what you want . Does mcdaniel want to deal with a Republican Convention getting overshadowed by their nominee getting a federal conviction in the middle of it . If you keep pushing, it lets it doesnt happen in the early part of the, air doesnt happen in the spring, not in the summ,woit in the fall . After he has secured the nomination or the general election . Should it happen in september . The weeks leading up to the general election of november, 2024 . Assuming donald trump does not succeed and a Hail Mary Pass to get the Supreme Court to somehow press pause on all this until after the election, its just obviously the best interest of the American Voter and american democracy to have this trial play out as soon as possible. 30 minute with someone who is inside that courtroom today, lisa rubin, nbc legal analyst. Lisa i was following your notes and it seem pretty fascinating. What was it like inside the courtroom today . It was fascinating, and a stunning daboll debut. As you noted for Tanya Chutkan, who was an unknown player to most of us following this drama. She was alternately funny at one point, trumps lawyer john laura was said to who her, your honor, you hit the nail on the head and she said i think that the last time youre gonna say that. She was firm into things and particular. She was from that the First Amendment rights donald trump demands have to yield to the Field Administration of justice and said political Act Calculations are not entering her decisionmaking in either direction. I was really impressed by how clever judge chutkan was because we all know that donald trump is like the honey badger of his own political life. He doesnt give a flying leap about some of the things that might incentivize other peoples behavior, like sanctions or even a contempt ruling. At the end, when she essentially said, council and your client, you are responsible for deescalating or rhetoric, because if you continue on this path i will have no choice but to try this case sooner. That is both responsible in in the administration of justice, but she might also have found the one stick we couldnt motivate a horse named trump. Because the one thing that you know he doesnt want is this trial will happen in an expeditious timeline. I had the axiom thought when i saw. That was the one thing they care about . It was another moment that underlies, we all know the score here. But judge does, jacksons office dies, everyone thought, they dont want this trial to happen for the election. Hes trying to get elected so he can get rid of this case. Correct. And you know, his lawyers know that as well because notwithstanding the fact that on social media this week trump said repeatedly, im not going to obey, and not gonna comply. John laurel was full of assurances to judge chutkan that his client would not only complying with the conditions of his release, but that he would comply with any protective order, as well. So now youve got a trump lawyer on the record Making Representations face to face with the judge, saying my climate client is going to obey and if he doesnt, there will be some consequences, not only for donald trump but potentially for his lawyers as well. Lisa, your coverage, essentials office, thank you so much for making time. Harry litman served as Deputy AssistantAttorney General in the department justice. Hes now a Legal Affairs columnist for the los angeles times. Danya perry served as jeopardy cheap of the Criminal Division for the Southern District of new york. Both join me now. Let me get your impressions of people that are far more practiced at this town have had a lot of experience in trial courts and before judges. Harry, what did you think of today . My best feeling, chris, is that the government is pretty happy. The one issue that seemed to be dividing them, whether Sensitive Information would be part of the protective order, team trump actually got its way. But Everything Else, i think, when the governments, way starting with the issue in the civil protective order, which they needed to move this process forward. Second, very importantly, the definition of Sensitive Information and how she cloaks all witnesses, anything about witnesses, under that definition and relatedly the treatment of Sensitive Information, trump can be closed off, he cant take any pictures, he cant do any identifying information, and then to backup what lisa was saying, the overall tone and feel, body language, i mean i wasnt there but this sort of messaging of the hearing, the, i am the judge or the criminal defendant, that aspect of it, if and when you force me to, i will use the very strong weapons at my disposal. That came through pretty firmly as well. So all in all, i think they have the judge they want. Its a very interesting suggestion, by the way, she made at the end, that if they misbehave it could speed things up more. Well see how that would work in operation, but it was something of a Master Stroke to add one more level that she can sort of used to try to influence behavior. She wants to sort of sub divide between now and actual contempt sentence in jail, as much as she can. She doesnt want to go to that right away. Danya, The Big Question here, is obviously when you take a step back there has never been a trial like this in american history. Theres no precedent for it. It is both two things at once. It is a normal criminal trial, brought under the normal processes and procedures, as prescribed federal law in United States constitution, and also completely the guy who was president running for president again. I thought this was really interesting. She kept hitting this home. Quoting from the new york times, i want issue a general word of caution. I intend to ensure the orderly administration of justice in this case as i would in any other case, and even arguably ambiguous statements that the parties and their counsel could be considered an attempt to intimidate witnesses or prejudice potential jurors, to be the court to take action. I caution your client to take special care about public statements in this case. I will take whatever necessary measures necessary to protect the integrity of this proceeding. What do you think of that statement from judge chalked on today . She made very clear from the outset that she was going to make sure that the former president has the same rights as every american, right out of the gates but also the same obligations as every criminal defendant, that he is not extraordinary in that sense and that she is going to hold him to the same standards and put him through the same paces is any other defendant that appears in her courtroom. We see this in every courtroom across the country. Just today jan judge kaplan in the Southern District of new york remanded for conduct that is arguably less egregious than statements weve already seen from the former president. And she is admonishing him, but his lawyers, as lisa pointed out, to make sure that he toes the line and follows her rules in her courtroom. And ed lisa and harry both say, i agree, most of the time judges have a lot of tools in their kits to make sure that defendants obey the rules. All kinds of straight conditions of release and they also have the ultimate sanction, usually, which is really manned, a revocation of bail. As everyone his head, and i agree its very clever, she has, the only thing worse than detention for this defendant is the speedy trial, essentially. So i agree with all the comments, and i thought it was certainly a good day for the government. Well defense did not get, while there was not a full blanket protective order, thats pretty ordinary stuff and i almost think that the government put that in there so there could be a compromise verdict, as it were, but i think that was a good thing for the government. The freed who was remanded into custody today, the judge he was engaged in witness tampering, hes gonna transfer him house arrest to being in federal jail. And you know, to this point, theres this question of how do you contain donald trump . I think trumps perspective on this is like what are you gonna do . Throw me in jail . Try it. Theyre going to test every boundary and its going to be a constant set of tests for this judge, no question. I think thats right. I think everybody assumes that whatever she says first, he wont obey. Maybe second. Maybe third. So she has to credibly be able to advance down that path, but eventually she will have only that second to last step of saying if you do this again im going to put you in jail. And when she has made that announcement, and if he does it again, she will have to follow through. Right. Even as you suggest, once that kind of martyrdom, its really quite a deprivation for him. You can imagine. One more thing, by the way. All the pressure on the lawyers. Theres gonna be a lot of heroes that he doesnt attend and she could start out saying mr. Laurel, you assured me, et cetera, you tell me now that you will get this straight, and that puts an extra level. Thats what she needs is more levels and steps between her and the ultimate weapon. All right, harry litman, danya perry, thank you both. Appreciate it. Coming up, the conservative case for disqualifying donald trump from another bid at the white house. But first, the Attorney General just appointed another Special Counsel to look into president bidens son. How we got to this point, what it means going forward, next. Eans going forward, next huh, huh, so did their dog roger. Gain scent beads keep even the stinkiest Stuff Smelling fresh. Rsv is in for a surprise. Meet arexvy. the first fdaapproved rsv vaccine. Arexvy is used to prevent lower Respiratory Disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. Rsv can severely affect the lungs and lower airways. Arexvy is proven to be over 82 effective in preventing lower Respiratory Disease from rsv and over 94 effective in those with these health conditions. arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. 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