Transcripts For MSNBCW Ayman 20240703

So there you have it. He also of course were in a way to the cold in cancun. Very math of the people. Great show as always, my. Friend enjoy the rest of your evening off. And coming up on ayman, trump takes a page straight out of the authoritarian playbook. Vowing to lock up his political opponents. How seriously should we take this threat . Not to be at, don georgia republicans are using a new state law to go after the a fani willis. We are going to explain that. In Texas Corruption and fraud, those are the allegations state Attorney General ken paxton is now facing as he heads to a Senate Impeachment trial just this week. Lets get started. In this past week alone donald trump got a court date for his federal election interference trial, pleaded not guilty in the georgia rico case and sign a transcript of his new york fraud case testimony made public. With accountability for his alleged crimes looking more and more real, what does the ex president do . He threatens retaliation in the interview with Former Fox Host Glenn back on tuesday, where trump said he would jail his political opponents if he returns to the oval office. Referring to trumps infamous 2016 campaign trail, vowing to lock her up. Im talking of course about hillary clinton. Back asked, do you regret not locking her up . And if your president again, will you lock up people . Trump responded by saying the answer is you have no choice. Because they are doing it to us. Frankly its not hard to imagine him following through on that threat. Well you have to do is consider the unthinkable promises trump made while campaigning back in 2016. Promises it to All Of Us Forest were dismissed and seemed hyperbolic. Donald j trump was calling for a total and complete shut down of muslims entering the United States. Until the countrys representatives figure to what the hell is going on . If were gonna build a wall we have no choice. Build that wall. Build that wall. You want to see the court overturned roe v. Wade . If you put two or three justices on thats what will happen. It will happen automatically in my opinion because im putting prolife justices on the court. So the Trump Administration cannot successfully defend a fullon muslim ban in court by a version of the original Executive Order that cut off immigration from six majority majority muslim countries did to take effect. While mexico never ended up footing the bill he did in fact construct some foreign 50 mile barrier within the southern border. Im sure you dont have to remind our viewers that he made good on his threat to a farright reactionaries to the Supreme Court and would select decades of precedent all to simply overturn roe v. Wade. It all seemed like absurd vindictive moon shots. In some form or fashion he in fact did carry out in all three of those Campaign Promises. I dont from says he truly planned to lock up political, component time for one take the man seriously. His inner circle is already musing about how he will do it. Remember Jeffrey Clark . He was the Senior Justice Department official and trump nearly named Acting Attorney General after the 2020 election. And currently one of trumps codependence in the racketeering case. He is also on the shortlist to become Attorney General if donald trump wins again. And this is according to insiders like steve bannon. It is, passed may, clark published a that some of the former president s ally c is a blueprint for bringing the Justice Department to heal. Specifically by trump claiming Sweeping Authority over the whole federal bureaucracy. It is an approach that many lawyers worry could turn the Justice Department into an instrument of the president s personal and political agenda. And they are right to be. Were a trumps biggest 2016 Campaign Promise lock her up, notably went unfulfilled. Joining me now is sara kinzinger, expert on authoritarianism and codes of the podcast and author of they, knew how a culture of comparison keeps america complacent. A former prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst, and jennifer horn, former New Hampshire Republican Party chair. Great to have you with. Us sarah, start with you and as i was saying this is a page taken out of the authoritarian playbook. When trump says that he intends to lock up his political components, opponents, how seriously should we as a society take that threat . You should take it very seriously. Haitian know that this is a playbook that weve already seen you. That weve already read. And really the scandal here is that he was not invited for a Obstruction Of Justice or other charges immediately after leaving office. And as a result we are left with the prospect of over cleveland. So it is not just a matter of whether they will lock these opponents. Up but anybody will get in the way of his. Plans it is about this Broader Network people like roger stone Michael Flint and steve bannon et cetera are once again installing themselves into an administration that has interest in the welfare of the american public. Hypothetically, it is a worstcase scenario trials, lets say trump wins in 2024 and thats what he Mediately Tamps somebody ideologically similar to hamlet Attorney General Jeffrey Clark why soon would make him as Attorney General, how quickly could this nation legally speaking Go Down A Very Dark Path . Are there do you think from your Legal Expertise Strong Enough guardrails in place to prevent this kind of thing from happening . A man i think the answer is yes and no. I believe that Donald Trumps waste very little time moving forward with an Attorney General that was going to carry out his wishes in that regard. It is important to understand that the wheels of justice move slowly. So even if he cannot get this read wrestling for in court, looking further to the arm of retribution, it does not matter if the democracy is in place of the president of the United States of america could use the Department Of Justice as his Enforcement Arm against his political enemies under the guise of they did it to me. Which is when i was not true. Ultimately i dont see that as being a viable avenue for him to years in a viable vehicle for him to execute agendas regarding this political regime against his enemies. And the same time, it would take us a while to get there if he begins to move on that immediately. Which could be a concern for all of us who Operation Santa Merrick and democracy. Jennifer, one of the things i worry about is how much donald trump has changed the culture in this country. Because i think to myself, if john mccain or mitch irani had vowed in 2008 or 2020, sorry, 2012, to lock up their political opponents, as their Campaign Mass shooting was left them out of the room. He would think there is no way that would be a winning political message for them. And yet here we are where donald trump said lock her up Chants Thousands and thousands of his supporters used that as his Main Campaign rally chant. What does it say that this kind of message works for a republican candidate in 2024 . Well i think it is really important that it is not just reflect on donald trump but reflects very much on those republican primary voters. Who are embracing this message, and you are tearing it. On who are rallying for. Its donald trump, one of the things that really concerns me, is that we are living in a world where i think there are americans who truly dont understand the value of democracy. And what can happen when it is lost. Donald trump is talking about a Leadership Style and a Policy Approach that is there are reflective of places like russia and north korea and china, where people who achieve a top position in the country use it and very much personalize it and use it to go after anybody who dares questioner or in any way. It is not enough to look at them and say donald trump needs to be defeated. Even if he, loses those voters in those republicans who are embracing this approach, who are embracing this ideology are still going to be there. Sarah, let me get your thoughts on. This how do you think this message lands with trumps base . To jennifer disappoint how goes blind supports like that usually help an authoritarian regime . Honestly, one of the biggest things this helped trumps space believe that hes innocent is the fact that he was not invited for his crimes. I live in missouri. I live in a state that voted for trump both times around. What i hear from the other people in my state is that if he were really guilty, if he had really done it, if hes really done something so outrageous is try to a coup, clearly the raw justice wouldve done something about. It he really stole classified documents, an obvious Severe Threat or national security, obviously it would move fast. That has not been what has happened. So that has been a tremendous weapon in Donald Trumps arsenal. Is his ability to not only get away with all of these crimes but to have institutions that are so broken and battered from within that they are not giving any affective pushback. And the result of this terrible for all of. Us its terrible for one who voted for trump and terrible for everyone who voted for biden. And this terrible for the majority of americans who dont vote at all because there are so disillusioned by this broken political process. By their calculations obviously not the one federal state charges all throughout the add up to a potential maximum sentence of 717 years. But hes obviously not likely to face that much time. Do you think trump has accepted the gravity of his legal situation. I think that he is a very much aware of how serious things fall. We are seeing from him in his defense team is trying to develop a strategy to get out of a quarter that he has very few options and. Ive been saying for a very long time for his biggest concern in needs to be fani willis and Fulton County. And the reason for that is because those rico starters carry with them a mandatory minimum sentence of at least five years, even if he was to go to the very unlikely and narrow pathway of trying to secure a pardon in the state of georgia. Not to mention the numerous hurdles that were involved with that. You still have a minimum amount of time with respect to his federal indictment of the things hes currently facing. There is no guarantee that he would get jail time even if he was convicted. That george our in Fulton County right now the absolutely requires that he goes to jail. Which is why i believe he understands the gravity there as to why that is his most direct chance of going to drill. We can control what happens with judge cannon or judge chutkan. But what we do know is that the rita charge in Fulton County is one that has a mandatory minimum. Thats going to be something of significant concern for donald trump. Of course there is that one trial where he cannot have any republican president pardon him if he does reclaim the white house in 2024. So the gravity of that is probably weighing on him even more. So sarah kenzy, thank you so much for being here tonight. Everybody, please stick. Around the state low the georgia republicans are using to try to target fani willis. But, first my friend Richard Louis is here with the other headlines. Hey, ayman. Good evening to. You are investigating one death of the Burning Man Art Festival in nevada. Cause of that death is unclear. Nearly 70,000 people are starting the festival after heavy rainstorm halted all inbound and outbound traffic. Ukraines president says he will replace his countrys defense minister, Alexei Reznikov off who is under scrutiny for mishandling military contracts. This marks the first major change to the countrys leadership since the start of the russian invasion. North koreas state media says their country conducted days amelia Tactical Nuclear attack. The trial saturday included to laundrie cruise missiles. Test comes several days after the joint Military Exercises with south korea in the United States. More ayman for you states. More ayman for you after the break. T then, i rememd that the world is so much bigger than that, with trelegy. Because one dose a day helps keep my Asthma Symptoms under control. 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Heres why you should switch fro to duckduckgo on all your Devie Duckduckgo comes with a builtn engine like google, but its pi and doesnt spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. And theres no catch. Its fre. We make money from ads, but they dont follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. Republicans are wasting no time going after Fulton County d. A. Fani willis, for daring to investigate Donald Trumps efforts to overturn the 2020 election. At the state level, Top Republicans are moving ahead with their plan to target willis, using a brian kemp that makes it easier to remove elected district attorneys. Under the law, a commission made up of State Officials has the power to investigate complaints, and discipline, or even remove prosecutors, who they believe are not properly enforcing the law. This week though, Governor Kemp himself shot that idea down, saying he has not seen any evidence that williss actions have been unlawful. But, republican lawmakers were undeterred. The commission will start receiving complaints on october 1st. On the federal level, House Republicans have already launched a probe into willis, baselessly accusing her of coordinating with special counsel jack smith. House judiciary chair jim jordan has given willis until September 7th to hand over documents he has requested. And msnbc political contributor is with us now. And, joining us back in the conversation, charles forman, and jennifer horn. So tell us a little bit more about what youve heard from, or at least about this commission, who is on it. And, from your reporting, how seriously should we be taking this . Are they simply going through the motions . Or is there a chance they will actually be able to do something to derail or halt fani williss work . Yeah, and as you mentioned, the governor himself says he hasnt seen any evidence that this commission can take any action against fanning willis. But that wont stop the complaints, ive heard from a number of republican senators in particular, in the states in georgia, who have said they are encouraging their constituents to file formal complaints against fani willis, once this commission is fully up and running in october. Theres a number of wildcards, the biggest one of which is there is a lawsuit now pending against this commission, that could end up either overturning, or at least delaying its official launch. And there are still members who are trying to put together the rules and regulations, so there is still a lot of question marks about how this commission will actually work. But right, now there are Republican Leaders who are actively encouraging fani williss critics to file complaints, using this commission, that could lead to the discipline, sanctions, or even her removal, even asked the governor says there is no evidence whatsoever for the commission to take any sort of action. Charles, he brings up an interesting point about brian kemp in all of this. On one hand, he has dismissed these impeachment calls, he says theres no evidence for her, or seeing any evidence that she has done any wrongdoing, in reference to fani willis. But at the same time, some are saying that he is no hero by any means. I mean, he was the one, ultimately, that signed this law, designed to remove elected district attorneys. How much of this is on him, for arguably giving them this pathway . A lot of republican officials try to do this, they try to thread the needle by appealing to trumps base at some point. But then, as we saw with brian kemp this week, forcibly saying you know, he has not seen venules do anything that warrants this. Yeah, i mean you, dont get credit for walking up to the line of destroying democracy, and then not crossing it by. I think that thats the thing about brian kemp that we have to understand, about this conversation, is that you cant speak from both sides of your mouth. But lets understand what this discussion is really about, a man. This discussion, ultimately, is about the disenfranchisement of the entire, the entirety of the electorate in Fulton County voters. Because, fani willis is a duly elected Fulton County official, and there is already a method that those voters have, for redress, or for removal of fani willis, if they do not approve of the job that she has done for the job that they elected her to do. That is at the ballot box, that is, that is during election season, thats how that. Works that is already in place, that mechanism already exists. And so, when you are talking about someone who has already been satisfactory, to the point of being elected, and being a duly elected by her constituents. And now, a group of different officials in georgia dont want to take it upon themselves, to try to basically, make a decisions for those voters, despite whatever it is that they said at the ballot box, on election day. Thats a conversation about disenfranchisement, and that we really have to understand, as part of the discussion its really about. And so, as the governor of the state of georgia, no, brian kemp does not get credit for saying well, fani willis hasnt done anything wrong. The fact that youve thrown this munch monkey wrench, and by signing this bill, only creates more confusion, and a pathway to further disenfranchise voters in the state, where we already know there are a significant amount of attacks on different voters, who are trying to just exercise their civic right. And jennifer, you know, republicans were supposed to be the party of law and order, they were the ones who believed in the power of state authorities. And yet, here we are, with them going after, as jim jordan did with the manhattan d. A. , alvin bragg. And now, investigating, and possibly threatening to remove fani willis. Give me your thoughts on this, and what this says about the broader Republican Party . Which again, they say that they are investigating the weaponization of the government. And here they, are using the full force that they have as members of congress, and what have you, and other representatives in the state, to go after prosecutors, who happen to be investigating donald trump. Well, certainly, they have weaponized their positions ask congressman, in this circumstance, theres no question about it. And lets be really clear, jim jordan is not a serious leader. And, the destruction that he is trying to wreak on the american system, through his position, it is courtesy of kevin mccarthy, and the deals that he made to become speaker of the house to begin with. But what jim jordan is doing is clearly the definition of weaponizing government, to go after your personal or political enemies. Whats happening with the Republican Party right now is something that i barely recognize, if it had not been for the fact that its been in development for the past six years, for the past eight years almost now. You know, the idea that the Republican Party is the party of law and go and order, its just old news, its garbage now. The idea that the Republican Party is, wants to stand up for rights, and to protect peoples, womens rights, or the rights at the ballot box, or any of the other titles that they have given themselves over the years, ayman, i left the party, not because of trump being horrible, but because of Mitch Mcconnell, and kevin mccarthy, and the rnc chair, embracing trumps horribleness. And, they are unwillingness to defend the rule of law. Yeah, they are not the party of law and order, not the party of national security, not the party to stand up to russia, not the party to defend womens rights. Right, lets switch gears for a moment, and actually talk with the specifics of the case, and the developments there. 12 defendants, trump, rudy giuliani, sydney powell, kenneth chesebro. They have all pledged not guilty, raining formal arraignments. The remaining will be arraigned on wednesday. What do you expect to see there, what do you check to play out in the next couple of days and weeks . Yeah, thats not a surprise at all, that those defendants have the rights to waive their we. Might see some more, what they are doing is they are avoiding a spectacle, they are avoiding a packed courthouse, with tv cameras rolling, and all sorts of additional attention. Instead, theyve already entered their not guilty pleas, but really, whats going to happen and now is the next phase of this litigation, which is truly already unfolding. Youve had five codefendants, five defendants filed motions to remove the case to federal court. Several have tried to speed up the case, several of trying to slow down. Really at the center of this of course, is donald trump, whose entire Litigation Strategy involves trying to slow everything down. He wants to delay this case as long as he possibly can, and he is going head to head with fani willis, who watched you all 19 defendants together, and she wants to also keep this case in Fulton County, where it can be televised, and where it will make Fulton County jury pool. All right, charles coleman, thank you so much, i appreciate your time. Brad and jennifer, please stick around. Next, we are staying in georgia, how trump ruined the state Republican Party, for years to come. Come. On aya. Quick, the quicker picker upper bounty absorbs spills like a sponge. And is 2x more absorbent so you can use less. Bounty, the quicker picker upper. How can you sleep on such a firm setting . Gab, mine is almost the same as yours. And is 2x more absorbent so you can use less. Almost is just another word for not as good as mine. Save 50 on the sleep Number Limited Edition smart bed. Plus, free Home Delivery when you add a base. Shop now only at sleep number. 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Heres why you should switch fro to duckduckgo on all your Devie Duckduckgo comes with a built n engine like google, but its pi and doesnt spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. And theres no catch, its fre. We make money from ads, but they dont follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. The georgia gop is in chaos, theres no other way to say it, possibly for years to come. And its thanks to one person, donald trump. As politico puts it, the state party is at war with its self. A needless conflagration set off by trump after, Top Republicans refused to heed his demands to overturn the 2020 election results. Those republicans include governor brian, camp Secretary Of State brad raffensperger, both of whom upheld the 2020 election results, and won reelection after. Despite efforts though, by trump to kick them out of office. And then there are republicans like david schaffer, the former state party chair, who not only tried to undermine, camp but who has now also faced felony counts. Shaver is one of three steak shipped charging to Fulton County state alongside state senator sean still and former Coffee County gop chair kathy latham. Now according to the atlanta general constitution, the georgia gop summit more than 520 on a legal representation for these Fake Electors in the first half of this, year alone. A number, that will almost certainly climb. Look, georgia is a key president ial battleground, one that the gop will need to win after losses in 2020, 2021, and 2022. But as the daily beast notes, the dynamic of trump, on trial for his refusal to accept the last election, while he attempts to win the next, one is one that many republicans believe is toxic for the party, and for their chances for success in 2024. Lets bring back greg bluestein, and jennifer horn. Greg, in article you wrote this week, you quoted hurts herschel Walkers Campaign manager, who said quote, the uniqueness of georgia cant be overstated. The two most popular republicans in the state, our governor brian kemp, and president trump. How do you rank and File Republican voters reconciler their support for both camp, and trump . And please, put in context just how bad this political civil war is . Yeah, i mean its not confusing, georgia politics, is so contradictory, that donald trump, can have 57 of the vote, and in a poll of republican primary voters. And, brian kemp as a percent, in terms of his approval rating. These are two politicians at odds with each other, over some of the biggest issues in the nation. And, yet they are two of the most popular republicans in georgia. But you are right, i mean, this rift in the Republican Party in georgia is huge. Consider it this way, that the state Republican Convention a few weeks ago, donald trump was the keynote speaker. And, multiple of georgias Top Republican elected officials, Governor Kemp, Secretary Of State crap brad raffensperger, the Attorney General, chris car. All of them did not show up, they boycotted this event. And Governor Kemp has even he can fundraise the cash, in order to create his own structure. That is how divided the state Republican Party is, between sort of the trump wing, and the other wing. And you mentioned it, as you talk about georgia being a battleground state. Georgia showed in 2021, and 2022, the Runoff Elections of 2021, and last years midterms, that there is a significant block of swing voters, of independent voters, that are willing to split the ticket. And, they have boycotted, they have voted from donald trump in 2020, and they bolted in 21, and 2022. Republicans are going to struggle to find an answer to those voters, with donald trump potentially on trial next year, why they should come back into the gop fold. Yeah, they categorically rejected trump backed candidates with the governorship for purdue and herschel walker. And yet, still elected brian kemp. And as you say, he still has some support there among the state. Jennifer, give me your thoughts on this, as a former republican, whats it been like to see a state that was, i would argue, and i spent a lot of time, and went to high school in georgia, lived there for a couple of years, a safe bet for the gop, turn into what is arguably now, a swing state. Right. And, thats exactly the point. It has become a swing state, whether they want to acknowledge it or not. Look, i was a former state party chairman, and the primary responsibility of State Party Chairs is to raise money, to support republicans getting elected. And when you look at the amount of money that the gop in georgia has had to spend on legal bills already, over half 1 Million Dollars. By the time the election rolls around next year, that could easily be an excess of 1 Million Dollars. Thats where their money raised is going right now. So, thats where this chaos has led. I dont know if they will have any money to support republican candidates, republican efforts, in their state by next year. You know, the chaos within the georgia gop, cant just be blamed. I know i keep saying this, but it cant just be blamed on donald trump. He didnt hold a gun to the heads of those Fake Electors, he wasnt down there in person, pushing them to make the claims that they did, and if you take the actions that they did. That, the party chair in georgia, i would say carries a tremendous amount of responsibility, for all of the chaos that they are facing right now. And, we shouldnt expect to see georgia go republican next year, in my opinion. Greg, i mean, is there any work being done to repair this gop divide, or is it just growing by the day, at this point . I mean, its there. Its a deep chasm. There is a new georgia gop chairman a former state senator. He was the handpicked endorsed candidate for david schaffer, the former gop chair. But, he is trying to sort of revamp of the party, and filled deeper ties with activists. But look, the republican establishment, the mainstream republicans in georgia, are keeping at arms length from the state party. And, there is this donald trump question, looming over everything. And Governor Kemp is among those republicans, saying republicans need to focus on 2024, rather than looking at 2020. But at the same time our polls show that about 60 of republicans still believe in the lies that there was widespread Election Fraud in 2020. And, you know, many of them still see that as a key priority for them, going forward. I feel greg, and correct me if im wrong, you have a better pulse for this. But i suspect there are some republicans out there who probably wanted ron desantis in florida, to do what brian kemp is doing now, and be that National Figure who would stand up to trump. But ron desantis is in the race, and he is not doing it. And brian kemp, you tell me, does he have his eyes set on a White House Run next cycle . He has definitely tamped down talk about running this cycle. But, certainly, he has not ruled out of 2028, he has not ruled out running for u. S. Senate against Democrat John ossoff, in 2026. And, he has spent some time in washington, he has had some fundraisers with Mitch Mcconnell and other key figures. And he is looking to play a bigger role in this 2024 race. He has said hes going to back the nominee, whoever it is, even if its donald trump. But he has also said that donald trump was the loser of the republican debate. A couple of days ago, because he refused to show, up and he boycotted that event. And jennifer, we are seeing a similar dynamic play out in arizona, these last few years. It was also a reliably republican state to, until democratics started winning in 2020, and then again in 2022. How long do you think it will be before folks realize trump, you know, is a loser, and that he damages the candidates in the states that he fields, and runs in himself . Well, youre asking me for a timeframe, i cant give you. Ill tell you that back in 2016, when i was serving in the rnc, i was telling all of my fellow members that if donald trump wins, the Republican Party will be in a desert for 25 years. And i think that might have been a generous, a generous estimate at the time. You know, republican candidates cannot win any election, at any level, if Republican Voters dont coalesce behind them. And that division that you are starting to see grow, a little bit in arizona, from what im hearing from some friends out, there but also in georgia, prevents that from happening, prevents the coalition of the party behind candidates. Thats why i think georgia is not going to be heading anywhere red next year. Arizona is behind them, and theyre going to be other states, beyond that. You know, remember, in georgia, its a great example. The party chair was one of the false electors. When you have that kind of insanity, that kind of division growing within the party, your candidates simply cannot win. Ill write, jennifer horn, greg bluestein, greatly appreciate your time this evening, thank you so much for all your insights. Coming up, some scandals that were going to look into, breaking news as well. We want to talk about texas occur Attorney General, ken paxton. Texas attorney. Ken paxton. Texas attorney. Of miles of remote coral reefs. That can be analyzed by ai in real time. 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And how it plays out could ripple through the Republican Party, on a national level. It made the state House Of Representatives voted overwhelmingly, in favor of impeaching paxton, on 20, counts including disregarding his official duty, Obstruction Of Justice, taking bribes, among others. 21 of the states 31 centers must vote against paxton to secure a conviction. And if convicted, he will be removed from office. Paxton has dismissed the trial as a political sham. But we know, he has been mired with controversy, since the very beginning. In 2015, his first year in office, paxton was charged with felonies related to securities fraud. But these impeachment charges stem from a new year, after a few years after that, excuse me. In 2020, when his very own deputies accused him of misconduct. They say paxton with out of his way to help his friend, and wealthy donor and Real Estate Developer nate paul, who was under federal investigation for fraud. In june of this, your paul was charged with eight counts of making false statements to financial institutions. But, it appears paxton have been working relentlessly to ward off this outcome for his friend. He hired an outside lawyer to investigate the fbis raid oath in 2019, despite objections from his staff. And, even after Forensic Experts found no ron doing by the agents, passes a gun to the fbi. Some of them resigned, in protest. And Paxton Subsequently fired the ones who did not. From fired aides, they then sued for wrongful retaliation. One, and get this, paxton proceeded to asked the Texas Skate State legislator to pay out the 3. 3 Million Dollar settlement. A Texas House Investigation on that Funding Request soon followed, and that brings us back to tuesday, when paxton will finally face the repercussions for his alleged actions. And those repercussions could send Ripple Effect for the ride the Republican Party. Because quite frankly, paxsons impact extends well beyond texas. As the New York Times put it, paxson has been one of the most aggressive figures in the conservative legal movement. His challenges to the obama and biden administrations, and his willingness to contest the results of the 2020 election, garnered him the loyalty of republican primary voters, and the endorsement of none other than former president trump. When we come back, im going to get into all of this, with my next guest, someone who has a lot of insight, into how paxton operates. Stick around. Operates. Stick around. Operates. Stick around thats my boy. Now you get out there, and you make us proud, huh . Bye, uncle limu. Stay off the freeways only pay for what you need. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Power e trades easytouse tools, like dynamic charting and riskreward analysis help make trading feel effortless. And its customizable scans with social sentiment help you find and unlock opportunities in the market. E trade from Morgan Stanley. 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So, Texas Attorney general ken paxton there, back in may, on the eve of his impeachment hearing. The state House Of Representatives, of course, did vote overwhelmingly favoring to impeach. And the trial is now set to start in the state senate, on tuesday. Joining me now to discuss thiss attorney, and former clerk of paris county, chris hollins, he is also the democratic candidate for houston city controller. Great to have you with us, chris. I mean, you know how paxton operates, youve had a Front Row Seat to all of this, and to the work he referenced in that clip we displayed. He even sued you, back in 2020, to prevent you from sending out mailin Ballot Applications to voters. Talk to me about how significant this moment is. Absolutely. Well first of all, thanks for having me this evening. Ken paxton is a bully, the way that he is operated, since hes been in office, as Texas Attorney general, is to do everything he can to run the maga playbook. Hes fought local control from democratic cities like houston, like austin, like harris county, where i served as county clerk. He has tried to shut down voting in black and brown communities. Not only suing us just for Sharing Information with voters back in 2020, but also trying to make it harder to execute things like drivethrough voting, during the pandemic. Here, its finally caught up with him. He is doing political favors for donors, he is trying to cover up an alleged affair, using Taxpayer Money to fund ubers to his mistresses home, and so many other things. And, enough is enough. And as you said, this isnt a political thing, you have a majority, a huge majority of republicans in our state house, who have sided with him on so many other things, voting for impeachment, because the straw has finally broken the camels back. Democrats have said, chris, that in trying to hold paxton accountable, Texas Republicans are acting more out of convenience, then conviction. What do you make of that . I mean, has the gop simply turned a blind eye in the past years to all of his alleged aggressions. And if, so what would motivate their pursuit of justice at this . Point well you know, as you mentioned earlier in the segment, he has been under indictment for more than eight years, at this point. He has used the office to his own benefit, taking trips to the caribbean, and whatnot, on the tax paradigm. But again, finally what caught up with him was his own shenanigans, trying to force the texas house to use three point 5 million of Taxpayer Money, to pay off his settlement, for wrongdoing, and in violating whistleblower loans. Thats what forced this investigation. And of course, once the investigation was launched, the facts were just to clear. And so, a majority of the state house, which again, is dominated by maga republicans, voted for impeachment. And then, we are going to see what happens here in the trial in coming days. Yeah, and speak of that trial, the senate needs at least nine republicans to vote against paxton in the trial, in order to see his impeachment through. Are you confident those votes will come through . And what else will you be keeping an eye on come tuesday . If they follow , they will absolutely find him guilty, and remove him from office. That we dont know thats the case. You know, ken paxton has relied on the republican Supreme Court, in this state to vote in favor of some of his agree just cases, for many many years. Now and, while there is a gag order in place for legislators at this moment, that hasnt stopped paxton donors from getting our lieutenant governor, who is leading this trial, 3 million in contributions, in the past weeks and months. We also know that his wife is sitting on the trial bench. She is not going to vote, but as an extension, she is essentially counting as a not guilty vote. And so, we are hoping that they found they finally come to their senses, that they follow the facts, the numerous, numerous agree just facts, that should lead them to a guilty verdict. But again, we will have to wait and, see in the coming days and weeks. The fbi is also investigating claims made by paxtons staff, that he abused his power in office, to help nate paul. Its seems as though he will not be able to evade accountability, even if he were to remain in office. Your thoughts on whether or not justice will eventually catch up with, in one way or the other. And how does this play out with texas voters, in the next cycle, if ken paxton remains, and seeks office . Well look, we shouldnt be worrying about voters at this exact moment. Justice needs to be done. And the texas senate should not play politics. Again, they should follow the facts, they should look at the numerous things that the house has already found, on a bipartisan basis, that ken paxton is guilty of and, they should push him out of office. So we shouldnt leave it to the last election. But of course, as you mentioned, the fbi investigation is still. They are and we trust that they are going to follow the facts as well, and that justice will be done. And so ultimately, the wrongdoings of ken paxton finally caught up with them. And, whether or not we see justice done with this Impeachment Trial, in coming days and weeks, we hope that the fbi will do its job, and find him guilty. Im curious to get your thoughts just on what this says about the broader state of the Republican Party, in your state. I think a lot of people in the last couple of election cycles had been seeing some of these troubling trends among the politicians, certainly the gop politicians there, thinking that it would be enough to turn the state blue. But given what has happened now with ken paxton, and what is about to begin on tuesday, what does this say about the state of the Republican Party, broadly speaking, in the State Of Texas . Sure. I mean, we are still seeing some terrible things take place here, in the State Of Texas. We have migrants seeking asylum, who are being pushed into rivers, along with their children. We have more guns on our streets than ever before, because republicans refused to do anything to take weapons of war off of our streets, despite so many mass killings that have taken place. We have local School Districts being taken over by the state. And so, we are still under attack here in the State Of Texas. And there is still a lot of work that needs to be done. We are hoping that justice is done here, that ken paxton is impeached, and that we can have a new Attorney General. And, that would be on the ballot next fall. We also have ted cruz, one of the most hated centers in america, on the ballot here in november of 2024, and democrats have a number of strong candidates who will be seeking that office. And so, we have to do the work, ultimately, to make sure that the voters know whats at stake, that the voters understand their opportunity, to take their future in their own hands. And we hope that in november of 2024, we will move closer, or over that line. All right, chris hanson, it was always a pleasure. Thank you so much for making time for us, im sure movie speaking to you again, as things progress in texas. Thanks so much, have a great evening. You too, and thanks for making time for us at home. You can catch even Backyard Msnbc Saturdays and aide, sundays at nine. Be sure to follow us on twitter, tiktok, instagram. All it ayman msnbc. Until we meet again, im a bit meridian in new york. Have a good night. Night. I told myself i was ok with my moderate to severe Rheumatoid Arthritis symptoms. 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