This afternoon we have a Bombshell New report from abc news the trumps former Chief Of Staff, mark meadows, has been granted immunity in special counsel jack smiths federal interference case. Mr. Meadows has reportedly told smiths team that he long believed that trump was being dishonest about his claim that he won the election. Which is certainly something new. Now that report has not been confirmed by nbc news, and Meadows Lawyer is denying it, so we will have a lot more on that later in this hour. But we start with the absolute debacle unfolding among republicans in the house of representatives, which is entering its fourth week. Fourth week, without a speaker of the house. Right, now republicans are holding a vote Behind Closed Doors to choose their fourth nominee for speaker in less than two weeks. This morning, after five rounds of voting Behind Closed Doors, the party nominated its third speaker candidate, congressman tom emmer. And then, just four hours and ten minutes later, tom emmer dropped out of the race. Why . Heres a hint. Right after republicans took that vote, donald trump denounced tom emmer on his social media site calling the congressman a globalist rhino. One source said that trumps rejection had made a successful floor vote impossible for mr. Amr. And so republicans are right back to where they started now one of the reasons hard right republicans opposed tom emmers because he voted to certify the 2020 election. Here is congresswoman brown Marjorie Taylor greene on that very issue, today. How much did emirates vote to certify the 2020 election go against . It was quite a big thing for me. I couldnt support a speaker of the house who admitting joe biden won the 2020 election is now heresy in the gop. After elmer dropped out, republicans announced a new list of candidates and all of them voted against certifying the 2020 election. To be clear here, its not that tom emmer has been a vocal opponent of the big lie. After the election, emmert was actually one of the republicans who signed on to a legal brief asking the Supreme Court to step in and overturn trumps loss. But apparently, that is not enough for republican hardliners. So still in this apparently never ending republican race for speaker, as of this hour, Florida CongressmanByron Donalds, a trump supporter and freshman member who is not yet served a full term in congress. Chuck fleischmann who called trumps federal indictment of relentless effort to undermine and destroy trump by any means and when it shows the weaponization of the federal government, Congressman Myrick Greene who called being transgender a disease, and was nominated by donald trump to be secretary who had to withdraw over his history of transphobia, congressman roger williams, investigated for adding a car route to a bill that wouldve benefited the Car Dealerships he owns. Louisiana congressman mike johnson, the New York Times dudes when republican members of congress trying to justify their votes against certifying the election, about three quarters of them relied on the arguments of a low profile louisiana congressman representative, you guessed it, mike johnston, for the times calls the most important architect of the Electoral College objections. So thats what theyve got right now. And if that is all, and not bonkers enough for you, nbc news is reporting that Kevin Mccarthy its floating an idea to have the republican conference reinstalled Kevin Mccarthy as speaker, with farright congressman jim jordan as his assistant speaker. Because why have one guy who just lost when you could have to . So yes, it is a debacle down there in the Lower Chamber which seems to have led some republicans to revive one of the worst ideas in congressional history. If we go to the floor, you know what im doing . Ill be nominating donald j trump. I can like the idea of donald j trump. Hes a lead of our party. Ive said that from the beginning. I continue to say it. Joining me now at least 11, New York TimesPolitical Correspondent and charlie sykes, founder and editor at large at the bulwark. Lisa, when we were writing the names of people who were still in the running, there was a concern on the part of all of us that they would be gone before we even got to air. Thats how quickly this is moving. What does the churn suggests to you . The turn suggests the party in chaos. A leaderless, directionless party, flailing around trying to fulfill one of the most basic functions of governance. And really the house in many ways in our Current System doesnt even have that much power. Yes, they can keep the government from Shutting Down, which is a really big deal and a thing that were all gonna have to deal with sooner than i think everybody would like in november, but its controlled by democrats, the white house is controlled by democrats, are not putting out a broad conservative agenda thats going to be passed into law. Besides the budgetary function, a largely symbolic post in many ways, and theyre failing at the symbolism. I think what it suggests is a party that is in complete disarray right now. Charlie, we have a kinetic situation down in the house, they are voting right now and not on the floor, theyre voting amongst themselves to determine who gets to be the next nominee for however long mike johnson, apparently, if im right, has the most votes, with 85 votes. Byron donalds is second. Byron donalds, Florida Congressman, big trump supporter, its not served a whole term in congress yet. Mike johnson, who the times refers to is the most important architect of the resistance to electoral certification, Electoral College certification in the house. What do you make of these two, shall we call them, frontrunners of the moment . Charlie . We are deep into this Doom Loop Of Crazy and absurdity. The fact that we are now down to plan e or plan f, were talking about the batch been creatures like this, is an indication of what lisa just mentioned. Its in complete disarray, complete chaos. There is no idea right now that is too crazy to be vaguely plausible, because they basically burned through all of the non crazy options, including some of the crazy crazy options. So the whole notion of a unity ticket between Kevin Mccarthy and jim jordan, and jim jordan would be what, the assistant to the speaker, the assistant speaker, a job that does not actually exist. It shows how desperate they are to come up with something. The fact that we are now in the fourth week of doing this is an indication that there may not be any solution. There are at least eight members of what called the crazed flavoring jackal caucus, who are not gonna support any sort of normal speaker, and there are maybe a 20 normal moderate Establishment Republicans who are not going to allow a legislative terrorist. So there is no solution to get to 217 votes. Why they are going through this exercise of nominating somebody, knowing that they may be dropping out after four hours, is an indication, and by the way, obviously, hanging over all this, is the Apex Predator of the gop, donald trump, who did flex his muscles. He does not have enough clout to elect one of his, his maga acolytes to be the speaker, like jim jordan, but, as he reminded us today, he can destroy any political career, and he is demanding absolute loyalty and absolute litmus test of belief in the big lie, support for his efforts to overturn the election, if you want to have even the slightest chance of having a political future in this particular house. Its that crazy. Lisa, you have an Essential Reading in the times today about the sway of trump within the gop. Ill be an excerpt. Trumps commanding position has turned republicans into a party of one demanding absolute loyalty to trump in his personal feuds and pet causes, such as his putt false claims of the 20 to 2020 election was stolen. Thats not the litmus test, it appears, for those who wish to be speaker. I believe, again, and when so many candidates, but everybody on deck right now, the latest vote count is johnson, mike johnson 85, Byron Donalds 32, congressman greener 23, Congressman Williams at 21, Congressman Fleischmann it ten, other, 31, present, too. The fact that other gets almost as much as the second runnerup tells you everything you need to know about the indecision here. But i do wonder, given this sort of existing litmus test of election denialism, does that signal that nobodys gonna get through this process that isnt an avid supporter of donald trump . It seems hard, because as charlie pointed out, trump can kick people out but he cant get anyone in. Part of what is so striking to me about all of this is that these are some deep political cuts. These people are not household names. I would be very surprised if many of our viewers right now are deeply familiar with amara, or most who lost. And hes the majority whip. The most wellknown. So with trump, the chaos being sort of the point of it, which is part of the trump brand, people know who trump is, they love, him the hate, and they have feelings about, him or they like that brand of politics where they really do not like that brand of politics. This just feels like some people that most of america has never heard of kind of tarnishing the entire party with this brand of chaos and disorganization. And that concern is certainly something i have been hearing from a lot of republican strategists and pollsters and people like that over the past couple of weeks as this is been going on. Most of them believe that perhaps, by the time the rolls around, a year and a half from now or so, this will be forgotten. But it is setting up exactly the contrast that Many Democrats want which is, you have biden out there, dealing with a really with war. Yes, dealing with war. With multiple wars. And then you have the republicans kind of going back and forth, a bunch of people that most people have never heard of, fighting about a position that most of america doesnt really understand what it does or doesnt to, and so its exactly the contrast the democrats want right now, and you just have to back that happen. You talk about the moderates here, charlie. What continues to confound me is why moderates, who understand what is happening to their own party, the fact that the house has been leaderless, speakerless, going into the fourth week now. Why there are not entries to democrats . Why dont moderates take the baton away from and im gonna Say Moderates in quotes here. Youre right. What we think of moderates is not what they. Are the people who are not actively trump ad acolytes, why do they not take the baton away from the maga caucus and try to make a deal with democrats . And what point do they break glass on that . Thats a very interesting point. To your point, though, we are not all actually moderates, and thats one of the reasons theyve been reluctant to do that so far because that apparently goes without, saying Shutting Down the federal government, paralyzing the congress at a time of international crisis, apparently is not as bad as actually cutting a deal with democrats, because i think they understand this would, be in this modern political, modern Republican Party, this would be political suicide, but at a certain point, when you have gone through all of the other options, this may be out there, because its clearly doable. We can have a Republican Party that can only lose four votes in the house. It doesnt take a huge number of them to say, okay, lets have some sort of a power sharing agreement. And of course there was some talk about that last week, with the empowering of an acting speaker, patrick mchenry. I would not be shocked if that option came up again, but again, weve never seen anything remotely like this and we certainly never seen a Political Party squander its majority or inflict these kind of moves on itself like this Republican Party. I think cant think of any historical parallel world where a Political Party as so damaged itself in the run up to the election. And to lisas point about their hope that people will forget all of this, well, we are not close to a resolution, and we are very very close to a government shutdown. And it is this overall impression that they are not interested in gun governing, that they are so extreme, they are so bizarre, they are so uncontrollable that clearly it is going to play into, and if you hear democrat its hard to imagine a scenario thats more attractive, especially knowing that theyre gonna nominate donald trump next year as well, the chaos candidate. There is the process, which is completely chaotic, at best, and the process, again, the first ballot of the evening, closed door voting among the republican conference, congressman mike johnson, called the most important architect of the Electoral College objections in the 2020 election, that man is the top pick at present Behind Closed Doors among republicans this evening. Lisa lerer, charlie sykes, thank you so much for your time this evening. We have a lot to get to on this kinetic night of news, including what one lawmaker says about the fate of this leaderless Republican Party but first is this whole thing about flipping. They call. It ive known about flipping. Ive been watching flippers for the last 40. Reservings wonderful and they get ten years in jail in a flip on whoever the next highest one is. Or as high as you can go. Its gone flipping, and it almost out to be illegal. Don trump did not manage to make flipping illegal during his four years as president , but today he probably wishes he had. Stay with us. aidyl hi, im aidyl, and i lost 90 pounds on golo. I struggled with weight loss and weight gain my entire life. With all the yoyo dieting i did in the past, i would lose 20, 30, 50 pounds just to gain them over and over again. Thanks to golo, ive been able to steadily go down the sizes in my closet and keep the weight off. For the first time in forever, i feel in control. announcer change your life at golo. Com. Thats golo. Com. Only Unitedhealthcare Medicare advantage plans come with the ucard one simple member card that opens doors for what matters. What if we need to see a doctor away from home . We got you with medicare advantages Largest National provider network. Only from unitedhealthcare. After advil. Feeling better . On top of the worlddddd before advil. Advil targets pain at the source of inflammation. When pain comes for you, come back fast with advil liquigels. Heres why you should switch fo to duckduckgo on all your Devie Duckduckgo comes with a builtn engine like google, but its pi and doesnt spy on your searchs and duckduckgo lets you browse like chrome, but it blocks cooi and creepy ads that follow youa from google and other companie. And theres no catch. Its fre. We make money from ads, but they dont follow you aroud join the millions of people taking back their privacy by downloading duckduckgo on all your devices today. We were getting ready to win this election. Frankly, we won this election. On election night, 2020, with votes still being counted, donald trump made that very premature victory announcement, launching what would become a widespread fraudulent effort to convince voters and lawmakers in the courts that he had won. But now we know, courtesy of abc news, the trumps own Chief Of Staff at the time, mark meadows, believed that trumps Victory Statement was dishonest. He reportedly told special counsel jack smiths team, obviously, we didnt win. And we know that because abc news is reporting tonight that mark meadows has entered into an Immunity Deal with federal prosecutors. According to their sources, meadows has testified at least three times, including once before a federal grand jury. A lawyer for meadows, however, is disputing abcs reporting. Lawyer George TerwilligerCenter Abc News tonight that i told them they were the story was inaccurate. People have to judge for themselves the decision to run it anyway. Joining me is joyce vance. Joyce, thank you for being here. I find us in a strange position. Why is there no Immunity Deal in georgia if theres one in the pheasant federal election case . How do you read the tea leaves in all of this . Right, so i think part of the confusion, alex, might be over the fact that there is a difference between someone who is indicted and who decides to conclude a plea deal with the government. They plead guilty and they agreed to cooperate and exchange for favorable treatment. Thats the kind of cooperation deals we are seeing here being handed out down in georgia. Meadows, though, i think is in a different category he has been. Offered immunity in exchange for his testimony and perhaps using the word offered is a bit misleading. Because when your immunized, you really no longer have the option of not testifying. You have no fifth amendment right. Nothing that keeps you from testifying. The only real question is the government giving you use immunity or transactional immunity. Use immunity just means that your testimony cant be used agains