[ no audio ] [ no audio ] pables to my wash. Now ill be smelling fresh all day long. [sniff] still fresh. [ no audio ] try for under 5 hey, grab more delectables. You know, that lickable cat treat . Delickable delectables . Yes, just hurry. Hmm. It must be delicious. [narrator] this is my coffee shop. Delectables lickable treat. We just moved into a bigger space, brought on another employee, and ordered new branded gear for the team. It was so easy. I just chose my products, added our logo, and placed my order. Bring your own Team Together with custom gear. Get started today at customink. Com. Lets try that again. Hi, everybody. Just after 4 00 in new york now. Were sorry about that. We have some technical difficulties. We start again though. With the news that broke on capitol hill. And that is one Mitch Mcconnell. Who ended his tenure today as the longest serving Senate Leader in history. Hell be gone in a few monthsm but well live with his legacy for a very long time. The question before us, what exactly is the price well all pay for the single greatest legacy of mcconnell as the head of senate republicans. That is of course the turbo charges conservative majority on the u. S. Supreme court. There is also his legislative legacy, the bills passed under the three president s including the vast majority of trumps agenda, but towering over all of it and likely to last long beyond his tenure and his life is the work of the three justices whose nominations they put there. One of this, gorsuch happened because mcconnell denied president barack obama an opportunity to appoint his justice. The three justices apply the majority that overturned roe v. Wade, that wildly unpopular decision. Over turned Affirmative Action in College Admissions and have a plan to bring billions in Student Debt Relief to millions and we could go on and on. We cover all of this on the broadcast all of the type. And right now dealing with the slew of incredibly consequential cases involving atashes to a man who disagrees with many of mcconnells long held Foreign Policy views. Mcconnell even hinted at that distance between themselves and the Maga Movement at his announcement today. The trial works so hard to get the National Security package passed, earlier this month. Believe me, i know the politics within my party at this particular moment. I have many faults. Misunderstanding politics is not one of them. Who is anything that sums up mcconnells relationship with donald trump and that Maga Movement. How it defines our Politics Today will be the moment he pinned the blame or the dead insurrection on donald trump and voting to acquit him during the second impeachment trial. President trumps actions for a disgraceful, disgraceful dereliction of duty. The house accused the former president of quote, insightment. That is a specific term from the criminal law. Let me just put that aside for a moment and reiterate something that i said weeks ago. There is no question, none, that President Trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day. No question about it. That is where we start with our favorite experts and friends. Democratic senator Richard Blumenthal is our guest, he sits on the Judiciary Committee and melissa mary is back and back at the table former u. S. Senator and cohost of how to win the 2024 podcast Claire Mccaskill. And during that exciting meltdown, you have so many professional and personal experiences, stories and interactions with mcconnell. But what was your first thought today when you saw the announcement. That there is trouble in the caucus. I think he is here is what Mitch Mcconnell, mitch cares mostly about power, and his party. He is a traditional leader in that way. It is not really about mitch. It is about that he loves being in charge. But so what hes seeing right now is how can he facilitate getting a leader of the senate that is not going to be crazy town. That is not going to be a josh hawley or a rand paul who have all called him liars in public. There is real friction in the caucus. So i think hes trying to give enough time, knowing he probably couldnt get reelected again if he wanted to be the leader for the next congress, he probably couldnt get elected again and give someone enough time to gather the votes and to do the things necessary and im sure hes hopeful that it is someone who is not in trumps back pocket and theyre are now a number of senators that are in trumps back pocket. Mitch mcconnell is not one of them and most of the people running to replace him arent either. It is a crowded back pocket. It is a crowded back pocket. I want to look, the editorial choices we make are all a consequence of trumps picks to the Supreme Court and mcconnells getting them confirmed, starting with his denial of Merrick Garlands seat on the court. Mcconnell made the point himself that hes really good at reading politics. Do you think mcconnell is aware that the reason hes a Minority Leader and not the Majority Leader is because of the courts Decision On Dobbs . I think he does know that hes responsible for dobbs. I think we should not forget, we dont often enough talk about the dark money in politics. It is so corrosive, nicolle. People have no idea who are writing these Million Dollars checks, multiMillion Dollars checks behind the curtain and trying to influence our politics and it is all in the dark and that is almost 100 because of Mitch Mcconnell. And before Citizens United he was railing against doing anything to stop it. And he loved kavanaugh, he thought there should be no limits on any campaign laws, foreign interests ought to be able to give. And he did a couple of things strategically on the Supreme Court. First of all, the hypocrisy of him saying no to merrick gar land and pushing through Amy Coney Barrett and you knew the Kavanaugh Stuff would cause big problems for people like me and bill nelson because it turned into such a controversial thing for states that were not bright blue. Senator blumenthal, you sort of sit at this full come of dealing with a lot of consequences of decisions that the court makes. What are your first thoughts today when you saw the announcement . My first thought was that no person in recent histories had had a more devastating malign effect on Americans Civil Rights and liberties, whether it is gun violence or voting rights, or womens reproductive rights than Mitch Mcconnell. He has enabled far right capture of the Supreme Court. An not just of the nations highest court, but all of the judiciary. Onethird of all of the current judges sit on the judiciary by virtue of Mitch Mcconnell pushing them through. So it is not just the hypocrisy of Holding Merrick Garland for nine months and then ramming Amy Coney Barrett through this three weeks. It is a judiciary that is far right, activists and young. So theyre going to be around for quite a while. And that Judiciary Environment has changed the legal landscape in america. It is such a powerful i mean you cut through it much better than i was able to do in my two attempts to set up this conversation. But youre right to broaden it beyond dobbs and beyond abortion. I mean, the inability to speak to the 85 of all americans who would like to see Gun Safety Legislation is because of not just the people who sit on the Supreme Court, but all of those other judges that mcconnell is responsible for as well. Do you feel like were in a different spot now where the voting public is acutely aware that the Supreme Court and the federal judicial system is out of step with u. S. Public opinion . I feel very strongly that the credibility and stature of the Supreme Court has crumbled. As a result of dobbs, but also other decisions that you have just said so well, that are out of step, out of alignment with the mainstream of american thought. And theyre just getting started. This term could well mean overturning the socalled Chevron Deference rule. I know it sounds highly technical and obtuse, but what it means youre air and water is less safe. The workplaces of america are going to be more dangerous. Experts will no longer have the kind of impact that they do right now in framing american law in the way that it impacts every day americans. So were only beginning it trend. Now, im glad you brought it up because i think it all swirls around in this bucket of lack of ethics, a plunge, i mean i think the Supreme Court approval from the American Public was plunged farther and faster than any group in civic life in our countries history since gallop has been asking the question, i think the court has dropped 40 points including the year 2000 when Many Americans viewed the court as deciding a president ial election. What do you think mcconnells legacy is when you look at the public really bordering on disapproval, bordering on disdain in this one judicial body . You know, nicolle, that is really a profound question because the Judiciary Branch was supposed to be in the words of our founders, least dangerous. It is not elected. It is for life. And they were supposed to in effect be the fire wall against constitutional violations not the Activists Policy Making Branch that they have become. And i think americans deeply recented it at some level that these unelected lifetime judges are having these impact on their life that is foreign to their values and the daily challenges of their life. And i would say that the legacy of undermining in fact, in some ways crippling the credibility of court, is among the most lasting palline influences and legacy that Mitch Mcconnell leaves. And the politicization of the whole nominee process. Ramming through Amy Coney Barrett right before an election, and in which the nominee and president ial backer was defeated, in some ways is a defiant of American Public again, again that undermines the credibility of the court. So i think that is a pretty malign legacy. I would be remiss if i didnt ask you, senator, about what is before the United StatesSupreme Court right now. Today. As we have this conversation. Were waiting to find out if they will decide whether donald trump has immunity. Whether the 14th Amendment is as judge luttig said, something that renders a pretty clear judgment on whether trump could be on the ballot. They are, again, at the full crumb of his ambitions. And theyre also going to be seen and rightly as thoroughly political in the way that they make this decision. You know, i was a law clerk on the United StatesSupreme Court for harry blackman. Ive argued four cases before the court and i have deep respect and reference for the court and im so deeply disappointed and deeply frightened by what has become of the court because i think that it will undermine the stability of our government for Generation Tosz come. I want to bring you into the conversation. Melissa, you have a book out this week about trumps four indictments. Those of us on earth one, would rely on the facts and who have to patiently await any defendant, even donald trump, to be affording his due process and go through the process. What weve watched since he first ascended to the presidency and asked jim comey to see to it to let mike flynn go. There was a denial that he was a extra judicial individual or politician, but always a tacit acknowledgment of his expectation to be treated differently. We know from the meticulous work of the one select committee that he saw the Supreme Court as part of his final solution. We know from mark meadows texts that trump was eager for it to get to the Supreme Court. Well here we are. What do you think happens next in. It is hard to say. Donald trump thinks this court is in his back pocket they have some element of independence here but i think that everything that was said was right and it is worth underscoring. This is the Mcconnell Court and the Mcconnell Courts. Not only did Mitch Mcconnell obstruct the process after louing Merrick Garland a hearing he stonewalled on the obama lower Court Nominees and that meant when donald trump became president there 2016, there was a slew of lower Court Vacancies waiting to be filled and donald trump manages to recap the entire federal judiciary in his image. He has more appointed in one single term that barack obama did in two terms. So that is an enormous legacy and were living with it to this daym and a lot has been said about Amy Coney Barrett and her rush process. It is not unconstitutional, to me the bigger issue was that we never saw that hearing for Merrick Garland and what would have been a liberal 63 supermajority became a 54 conservative majority and then eventually with the addition of kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett with the supermajority we are today. And they may be independent but theyre there because of donald trump and Mitch Mcconnell. When you, melissa, See Mcconnell try to put some distance between them selfand the Maga Movement, which you cant separate it from the republican party, the Maga Movement is todays gop. It so rich with irony for the reasons youre articulating. The Maga Movement only gets as far as it gets in terms of stripping women of a right theyve had for 50 years because mcconnell made sure that trumps picks who didnt come from any of trumps long held admiration for any of these three people, i am pretty sure he didnt know who any of them were. It is all appease. So i find mcconnell separating himself from maga rich at best. There is this amazing clip on cspan and in don parters ceremony after the robert bork failed confirmation when mcconnell said, they didnt confirm my guy, im never going to confirm their people. And it is that same sense of grievance and aggrievement that characterized this Maga Movement. You have done this and were going to be obstructive. It is the politics of obstruction and Mitch Mcconnell is the key player in all of this. He coined the term and made it happen and although he may be distancing himself from the Maga Movement now, he is essentially its midwife. That is so amazing. Claire, we are so often hostage to the laws of relativity. The brain has to adapt to the last awful. So i think In These Times Mcconnell became less scary than ted cruz and hally. But the truth is mcconnell suffered a special extraordinary humiliation with donald trump when he went after his wife, in the wake of heightened hate climate around asian americans. Donald trump attacked elaine chao who served in Donald Trumps cabinet and mcconnell wouldnt defend her. On top of agreeing to a plan, there was he stands for the proposition that sometimes the desire for power overwhelms everything to such an extent that you lose your north star. And to me and do you need a north star to defend your wife. Exactly. What other north star could be there that you would allow someone to trash your spouse. Hawley and cruz did the same thing about his father and his wife. So it is and really, yes, Mitch Mcconnell said what he should have said, he should have toted to impeach him. He said what he should have said after what happened on january 6. But how many times did Mitch Mcconnell swallow what he thought in order to hold on to power. How many times was his gut telling him this is wrong. How many meetings was he at in the white house when you knew, this is a man who has no idea what hes doing and hes trying to do things that are against our constitution and what is normal. How many times did he put up with that and say nothing . That really is his legacy. He is the midwife of donald trump. Because