Effective, and it is not safe. Thank you very much. That is all in on the thursday night. Alex wagner tonight starts right now. Good evening, alex. Thanks to athome for joining me this hour. This evening, weve got some fairly shocking news. President trump is asking the court to schedule one of his federal criminal trials before the november election, specifically, trump is requesting that maralago classify its documents case to begin on august 12th. That is correct. Donald trump asked for that trial to start just three months before the president ial election. Except, that request may not exactly be what it sounds like. It could very well be a game of 3d chess. It does not sound like something trump placed on that often, but play with me here. Trump pitching that august date could be a way of trying to block the other federal criminal case, the Special Counsels much more serious a federal Election Interference case from going to trial before the election. Yesterday we got that massive news, the Supreme Court has agreed to hear trumps argument, those criminal trials in the d. C. Case should be thrown out because a president ial immunity. But the court did not schedule oral arguments on that case to start until the week of april 20 seconds. Because of that delay, even if the Supreme Court decides this case incredibly quickly, this Election Interference case most likely could not start until late july. Now we know from forms that were sent to potential jurors last year, once that case starts, the court expects it will last approximately three months, which means that the window in which they d. C. Election interference case could take place and conclude before the november election, that window is a very small. It is basically sometime between mitch ally and mid august. So donald trump asking for the judge in another case, the mar alago classified documents case to put that trial on the calendar in mid august seems like some 3d chess. Okay, maybe just chess. Right now it really doesnt seem like theres enough room in the calendar to have both of these trials take place and conclude before the president ial election. Jack smith team thinks the mar alago trial last 4 to 6 weeks. Trumps legal team thinks it will last 8 to 10 weeks. Now whether it is four weeks, or ten, weeks it could effectively block the judge and the federal Election Interference case from scheduling her trial in order to get a verdict before the november election, or another words, it could ice her. I saw her. That is when a person familiar with trumps trial strategy told cnn earlier this week. And we see news has not independently verified that reporting, more earlier this week that same person told cnn that as far as scheduling the maralago classified documents trial, the thing trump is really thinking about is blocking the d. C. Federal election case. The idea is to make it impossible for the judge in that case, tanya chutkan, to jam a trial down before the election by using things that are out of her control. Trumps team believes that mar alago case, if it is moved to july, could box out judge chutkan from putting the federal election subversion case on the schedule. It looks like that is trumps strategy here. Make sense to me. At the end of the day, this is his classic delay strategy with a few more bells and whistles admittedly. Instead, what actually confused me today with Special Counsel jack smiths strategy. Smiths team asked for the mar alago classified documents case to start on july 8th. I do not know about you, but that also feels uncomfortably close to the very small window in which the Special Counsel federal Election Interference case could start and finish before the november election. So what is the Special Counsel thinking here . Is there an order of operations . Are there any special legal avenues to expedite any of this . Something that would allow both of these cases to go to trial before november . Well i have the perfect person to ask. Joining me now is Andrew Westman nbc legal analyst and former fbi general counsel. Andrew, thank you for being here. Literally several times this evening and said we just need to ask weisman, so first, lets start with the Special Counsel. Im finding it, my heart sort of sank when i saw they were requesting in July 8th Trial date for maralago. That just seems to foreclose the summer, right . Do read it that way . So i feel like we need to have a chessboard right here. How about checkers, that is more must be these days. I read it as jack smith reading the tea leaves with respect to the Supreme Court, what they did just yesterday, we are kind of warm speed, he and this is like dog years, everything is moving so quickly, and i think he realized that the odds of his getting a trial date in the d. C. Case before september, and it would take the stars, the moon, and the earth to align, and everything to go right for that case to be starting in september. And there is a chance it is much longer than that. It is so i think this was reality. You know what, lets try and grab a bird in the hand. So i think that was his thinking. If you want, i can turn to donald trump. Before we do, that that is, i think there are a lot of people after the news yesterday that are thinking, but can something be done here . But to have a feels like almost an admission on part of the Special Counsel that is probably not going to happen, even if it does have been let saints of timber, if they think it is going to take three months, it is not going to conclude before the election. So i do think that he has a number lady to slim it down. Slim to win. It is standard procedures, you want to do that, as a prosecutor, just put on what you need. We saw that by the way in the Trump Organization trial, they really kept it tight. That is why i was really impressed. This is a good team. They did what they need, in and out, got a conviction. So i can see jack smith trying to do that. But just remember, he has to be thinking it is the start date unconcerned about. And, if you just, i did not do math in public, neither do i. I try i try not to. It is just not, it is just not looking good. That is all assuming that the Supreme Court does not do things to delay the case further, and there are various outcomes that it could. Right, im operating in best case mario here. Yeah, but that, is you know, when you put your mind in your head in jack smiths thinking, he has not bestcase an area, so he is thinking you know what, i have a very strong case in the classified documents case, i mean he has to be thinking this has jury appeal, it is not just the retention of classified documents, it is two forms of obstruction, by all accounts it looks like an incredibly strong case. We still have not heard any defense from the former president that passes the straight face test. Honestly we will see what happens at trial. So he seems to be thinking okay lets see if we can get that. It is still an uphill battle because he has before judge cannon, and there are many ways that that case can be delayed, but this was an issue of his request. So in terms of what he is asking for, this seems doable, the case has been pending for a long time, the classified documents issue is the only issue that would cause this to slow down, that is largely been resolved, and so i think he has the right to right, exactly. Lets talk a little bit about donald trump strategy here, because the reporting is, donald trump, it almost sounds like he thinks he has a willing audience in judge cannon yes, he does. It almost because he does. Im giving you my opinion. I understand that. The request from trumps team sort of begins with All The Reasons Why judge cannon shouldnt really even schedule this before november, but if she has, to how about mid august. They give her a lot of runway to say, there are other things you could say, the president ial Immunity Claim we have launched in the maralago, case why dont you wait until the Supreme Court figures that all out, and not do anything until then. Right, so, i do think you know, to point to note, he started by saying i did not want the trial in 2024. But she had ordered that they give a trial date, so he actually gave a trial, date but it is the backup position. This is his ace in the whole. I think it is not so much the i dont want it in 2024, or okay, it might plan be is august, he has made an immunity argument, the same argument that is made in d. C. This one minor difference, he wasnt president. So his argument is, but i took the documents while i was president , i have said that is like a bank robber saying i legally got the gun that are used to rob the bank. I was a customer of the bank when i went in and take the money. It is just such an irrelevancy, but he has judge cannon, so the question is whether judge cannon will sit on the whether she will granted, or if she denies it and says it is not a frivolous argument, meaning all of these delays of appeal that we have seen in the d. C. Case, donald trump is going to try that of course. The same road back to the Supreme Court. It is much harder factual argument and but that is not the issue. Just remember, we were all sitting here going is arguing he can argue s. E. A. L. Team six to kill an opponent, we are arguing that is laughable, and then yet here we are. Novel defenses the Supreme Court. We need to weigh in on that. So he has many ways, even if he were to get that august date, two later move it and push it aside. I mean, give me the over under on how optimistic you are about judge cannon. We sit here now, it is like you know, the possibilities for Holding Trump accountable seem to be shrinking by the day. There is the alvin bragg case which seems like that is sort of full steam ahead, but everything else. Can i stop you there, there is the oven by case, that is im not optimistic, im not optimistic on the d. C. Case in light of what happened yesterday. I wish i were, but i really am not. I am not optimistic in florida, even that one if you look at it rationally, that should be able to go before the election, it is the biggest open issue, there is judge cannon, we will have more data on this tomorrow, that the parties are going to be heard, my judge cannon, and she either will set a date, or at least give something as to what she is thinking. New reality also, is andrew, there is so many reasons for delay here. Even if you get to the point of actually scheduling a trial, finding an impartial jury in this is not going to be without its challenges. Theres already fierce debate over the juror questionnaire, to believe the election was stolen as a Question Jacks Mitt would like to have on the jury questionnaire, understandably trumps team is going to fight them every way. So i have picked juries in highprofile matters, nothing quite as highprofile as this, but in the and run cases, the Special Counsel case, yes it is a challenge, but it can happen. You are not looking for and the law does not require somebody whos never heard of the case. It would be impossible, it is also inconsistent with our history when we had a much smaller and people knew lots of people who were participants in the trial. So it is just required that somebody is going to be able to say, you know what, i would take my Oath Of Office as a juror seriously, and i will decide this case based on the facts and the law. The Biggest Issue i see in that is at the juror who once on the jury. From either side you dont want somebody who sneaking on who is going to say they are going to be fair and impartial, but either only valid for the government or the defense, that is the Biggest Issue in that matter, you can see usually people do not go i cant wait today to get on the jury. Most people are like how do i get off of jury. Yeah, it is a good thing neither one of these cases released are public emotion. They are just, everybody is levelheaded about all of it. Andrew weissmann, im going to say the carpenter of not great news, much to a wonderful guest to have on the show. Im very grateful for your time and thoughts. Pleasure. We have a lot more ahead tonight, President Biden went to the border today, so donald trump, we will get into those dueling trips, an alternate realities. But first, trump is trying some very creative and probably highly illegal strategies to avoid paying his bills. If any of it going to work . That is next. Is next. Ovides n , nonmedicated vicks vapors. Easy to apply for the whole family. Vicks vapostick. And try Vicks Vaposhower for steamy vicks vapors. Liberty mutual customized my Car Insurance and i saved hundreds. Thats great. I know, ive bee telling everyone. Baby liberty. Oh baby liberty. How many people did you tell . Only pay for what you need. Jingle liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Baby liberty. When i was diagnosed with hiv, i didnt know who i would be. But here i am. Being me. Keep being you. 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Dont wait, call and switch today there were a lot of warning signs, plenty of reasons why getting into tonights trump was never going to end well for them. If there was one moment where they should have walked away with their dignity intact at kept their distance from donald trump forever, it was probably this one. Andy, you are just being pounded, on your being out debated, i just do not want Somebody Running One of my companies who is going to get beaten up so badly. You are fired. I just have to do this, i have no choice. West, you are fired also. Andy and west moss, contestants on season two of the protests. Both were fired by trump and traumatic boardroom scenes full of Melodramatic Music and a whole lot of reaction shots. But Andy Lewinsky and west moss did not learn their lesson. Years later after trump became a twice impeached former president who tried to steal an election, and he lewinsky and west moss decided to go into business with him. And boy did they seem to regret it. These two former apprentice contestants helped trump build his rightwing twitter knock off social Media Company truth social. But now they are suing trump claiming his essentially trying to cheat them out of their share of that company. Who could have seen that coming. That lawsuit isnt your typical where are they now reality tv story. New lawsuit from those two former apprentice stars, now getting in the way of trumps latest attempts to keep accountability right now trump is on the hook for more than half A Billion Dollars from his civil fraud and defamation lawsuits. At the same time trump is in the middle of a big deal to try and effectively sell that would knock off for billions of dollars, the company that and he lewinsky and wes moss helped create. A lot of people think trump could try and use the proceeds from that sale in his legal bills, that way he could avoid having to salafists precious realistic holdings and get to cover of his misdeeds. Throwing a wrench in the deal. It is delaying trumps access to those funds. It could be a real problem for donald trump, who sure seems these days like he does not have the money to pay the millions and millions in penalties that he owes. Last week, trump tried to get the courts to delay his 83 Million Dollar payment in the e. Jean carroll lawsuits. Today carrolls attorney responded to that request for delay, saying he is to police asked the court to trust me, and offers the court filing equivalent of a paper napkin signed by the least trustworthy of borrowers. Trump is also trying to delay paying his new york civil fraud payment, the three trump and his lawyers asked the ju