Opinion and my lawyers opinion. Donald trump who still wants us to believe he can legally stash americas most sensitive secrets in a maralago bathroom was back in court today, requesting that the whole Criminal Case be dismissed. Also tonight, Vice PresidentKamala Harris makes an historic visit to an Abortion Clinic as republicans continue to push for a national ban. And i call this one. The big push to force a Chinese Company to divest tiktok would allow the far right maga crowd to swoop in and gobble it up, which now seems very possible. But we begin tonight with the lone exception to Donald Trumps petulant attacks against the judges and prosecutors in the numerous criminal and civil trials against him. That would be one judge aileen cannon, a trump appointee, where remind you, who is overseeing the federal Criminal Case involving trumps mishandling of classified documents. Todays hearing in a florida courtroom on two of trumps motions to try to throw out the case is the latest example of why trump has likely laid off on the attacks. Trump himself was in court even though he was not required to be there. Over the nearly fivehour hearing, trumps lawyers tried to make the ludicrous argument that those highly classified Government Documents that were found at maralago were actually trumps personal documents, and that he had every right to keep them according to the president ial records act. And if you forgot, according to the indictment, those documents that trump claims are clearly his, include information regarding defense and weapons capabilities of both the United States and foreign countries, u. S. Nuclear programs, potential vulnerabilities of the United States and its allies to military attack, and plans for a possible retaliation in response to a foreign attack. And trumps lawyers also argued that the section of the Espionage Act regarding the willful retention of National Defense information that hes accused of violating is unconstitutionally vague as applied to trump. Mind you, this same law has been used to convict countless others who have mishandled classified documents. As recently as this month. Im not aware if any of the others who were convicted stored the documents they took behind a cheap Shower Curtain in their bathrooms like trump did. Fortunately, judge cannon has already returned a ruling on that, denying the motion. But punting on a final decision, writing that it would be better suited to be addressed at a later time in connection with Jury Instructions briefing and or other appropriate motions. I guess that we should feel heartened that she thinks this will come in front of a jury at some point. But as ridiculous as thee trump arguments are, perhaps equally ridiculous is the fact cannon is entertaining these motions at all, when legal experts tell us most judges would have dismissed them on their face. And these are not the only motions trump has filed in the case. There are five more that cannon could decide to hold hearings on as well. Before setting a trial date, including one on president ial immunity, which will be heard by the u. S. Supreme court on april 25th. And all of this leads to trumps real agenda as it has been with each of his other cases, delay, delay, delay. To that, he has been very successful. Joining me now is msnbc legal analyst, neal katyal, Professor Of Law at georgetown university, and dave aronberg. I have to tell you, neal, im incredibly cynical about this judge. You know, we have friends like you, friends like dave, and i cant think of anyone who takes seriously these motions that are before this judge. It seems like entertaining them at all is a way to delay. Your thoughts. So joy, look, federal judges can sometimes surprise. And thats here many expectations for judge cannon were low given her rulings last year for a special master which was nuts and was overturned by the conservative Court Of Appeals with harsh language. Here so far, judge cannon has done the right thing, rejecting one of trumps motions calling as you said the statute unconstitutionally vague, which is preposterous. But to me, the big concern is that jack smith today maybe won a battle but hes losing the war. I feel very much like its about just like the Supreme Court and absolute immunity. The Supreme Court agreed, as you said, to hear Donald Trumps absolute immunity case on april 25th. There is no chance that trump is going to win and that the court is going to say he has absolute immunity, but what the Supreme Court did there is delay his trial for january 6th charges potentially to after the election. And the same thing i fear is happening with judge cannon. She keeps kicking the can down the road. I mean, the fact that she had a daylong hearing today, joy, on these two bogus issues tells you Everything You Node to know. The only thing that Donald Trumps arguments today warrant were an eye roll and a swift denial. And dave, its very hard, i think at this point, given all of the politics from the Supreme Court on, not to view aileen cannon and also mr. Hur, who clerked i believe for judge rehnquist at one point, as auditioning. Theyre helping donald trump. He doesnt have the most Genius Lawyers in the world. All they have to do is keep appealing and appealing and filing motions and thats all it apparently takes to have justice delayed, which in a sense for the people of the United States and voters is justice denied. Yeah, joy. I agree with you and neal that trump can win by losing. He can lose all these hearings and still win because his strategy is to delay things. Trump is nervous about this particular charge because it is the strongest case against donald trump. The Espionage Act, obstruction, they have him dead to rights. His only defense is he somehow declassified the documents in his mind like some Jedi Mind Trick is preposterous. If he can keep delaying it, he expects to be president again. Then he can order his Attorney General to drop everything. Then he can appoint aileen cannon to the Supreme Court. Although it seems like jack smith won today because she didnt boot the entire Espionage Act claim, she postponed her decision. She denied it without prejudice, meaning that donald trump can bring it up again in the middle of the trial and if judge cannon agrees in the middle of the trial, then Double Jeopardy attaches and jack smith wont be able to appeal it to the 11th Circuit Court of appeals and then jack smith is done on that claim. So its a temporary victory, a victory for now. And exactly, and thats why i called it auditions. Mr. Hur and ms. Cannon might see themselves as justices when Clarence Thomas and alito predictably resign if a republican becomes president. Thats just me. Let me read the letter from Donald Trumps lawyers to congress. They said this, we have seen absolutely no indication that President Trump knowingly possessed any of the marked documents or willfully broke any laws. Rather, all indications are that the presence of marked documents at maralago was the result of haphazard records keeping and packing by white house staff and gsa, so blaming them. The applicable statute is willful retention. To prove willful retention, the prosecutor must establish it was knowing. Now lets play donald trump talking about willful possession. I cant imagine you ever saying, bring me some of the boxes that we brought back from the white house. I would like to look at them. Did you ever do that . I dont have the right to do that. Theres nothing wrong with that. I have the right to take stuff, i have the right to look at stuff. I took the documents, im allowed to. By the way, they become automatically declassified when i took them. All i know is this, everything i did was right. Neal, thats why hes afraid of this case, because hes admitted he did it. Yeah. He hasnt been able to get his story straight with his lawyers, joy. So thats a really good illustration. His lawyers are saying oh, theres no indication whatsoever that trump willfully took the documents and then he says it all over. I think even more damning for trump is trump was caught on audiotape basically bragging about having classified documents with a journalist and saying, well, you know, ive got these highly classified documents and so on. I probably shouldnt show them to you or some language like that. Thats why i agree, this case, its in a way the strongest case, just because its so simple. I mean, anyone who has dealt with National Security information knows this is the easiest case. You prosecute this stuff every day of every week. And its not just that trump took the documents. Its that he willfully retained them after the fbi, the national archives, others said hey, give it back. There are all sorts of shenanigans that happened including most tellingly, what employee 5 said. Employee number 5 said look, i was summoned to maralago and was told that i had to that i was there because we were trying to figure out with the videotapes governing the storage room, that oversaw the storage room would be erasable and how quickly they would be erased. It sounded like a mob conversation. Trumps charged not just with stealing the documents. Hes charged with obstruction afterwards. And i think its a damning case for him. You mentioned him, lets play him. His name is brian butler, Employee Number 5. Lets play him. This is him talking about moving the boxes which contained National Security secrets. So i left maralago. I texted him, hey, im on my way. He followed me. He pulled out and got behind me. I ended up loading all the luggage i had and he had a bunch of boxes. You noticed he had boxes. Yeah, they were the boxes in the indictment, the white bankers boxes. Thats what i remember loading. Did you have any idea at the time that there was potentially u. S. National security secrets in those boxes . No clue. One of the things. Dave, that i think we should note here is one of the reasons he says that he did that interview on cnn is that judge aileen cannon allowed the release of information about who the witnesses would be. Which puts them in danger, puts them in jeopardy of death threats, whatever you get when you talk about donald trump, and so he came forward on his own. What he said is absolutely damning. He was one of the people not only moving the boxes but as neal said, he was one of the people who was talked to about hiding the Security Camera footage. Yeah. It is pretty damning in itself that he was worried that the federal judge in this case, aileen cannon, would release his name and information, that he had to go forward on his own terms and get his information out there. Lest he be attacked by the maga world. So thats troubling in itself. Its also troubling by the fact that trump interprets a president ial records act as meaning that he can take whatever he wants, it turns the whole act on its head. The act was established after watergate to insure that government records are owned by the people. And the archives, not the president. So he can no more take government records and classified documents than he could take Air Force One or rent out the Lincoln Bedroom on airbnb. He can do none of these things wrk and the fact that trump shows up himself to these hearings tells you how important he thinks this is and how he thinks perhaps he can get one over on judge cannon by reminding her perhaps that hes the one who appointed her. Please dont threaten him with a good time. He might just actually try to take Air Force One and turn it into one of his failed airlines. To you, neal, you have another case that does seem like its proceeding along, thats alvin braggs case. Alvin bragg now has suggested a delay. Its like this guy has to be the luckiest dude in the world, donald trump. Braggs court filing indicates trumps legal team ought to get a delay of 90 days after receiving 73,000 pages of records from the u. S. Attorneys office in manhattan. On wednesday, the filing said federal prosecutors producing 31,000 pages of additional records and represented there would be another production of documents by next week. This trial was supposed to start march 25th. Can you explain why so late in delivering those documents . Doesnt everyone nn theres a calendar and we need to get one of these trials at least done before the election . No. Cant do it. I can explain a lot of things, joy. I cannot explain this. This whole Southern District of new york investigation into trump and Michael Cohen has been the gift that keeps on giving to donald trump. So first, this office didnt prosecute donald trump, it only prosecuted Michael Cohen back when trump was president. We know what that was about. But once trump was out and biden was president , this office still didnt prosecute him. Now, theres this office has delayed providing documents to trump for some period of time leading to this lastminute extension. Now, to be on the other side, the manhattan district attorney, alvin bragg in his filing today said this is trumps fault. That basically they requested documents from the u. S. Attorneys office, got a whole bunch of documents they turned over to trump on june 8th of 2023, and that it was trumps lawyers in January Of 24 just recently who sought extra documents. So theyre putting it on them. But you know, it sure seems like maybe both of these actors are to blame, both the Southern District and trump. I dont know, but the result is, and i think were all hinting, we want the American Public wants to know what the heck happened. It looks like donald trump got a really Serious Campaign finance contribution that may have swung the election for him, and that it was illegal every day of the week, so that deserves to be looked at. At least something deserves to be looked at, right . I think the American People deserve to know whether this man is a felon on any of these. Now its 88 charges left before the election. Its stunning to me. And im sure stunning to you both as legal professionals that it appears hes so far getting away with all of it and not having a trial is the same essentially as getting away with it. If you never have a trail, you can never be a convict. Stunning stuff. Neal katyal, dave aronberg, what a world. Take notes, future felons. This is how you get away with crimes. Thank you very much. Up next on the reidout, Vice PresidentKamala Harris made History Today in a way that will be deeply meaningful for the president ial election. Stay with us. [sfx game controller] when occasional heartburn wont let you sleep. [sfx game controller] get fast relief with tums heartburn sleep support. Love food back and fall asleep faster. Tums tums tums tums okay yall we got ten orders coming in. Big orders starting a business is never easy, but starting it eight months pregnant. Thats a different story. I couldnt slow down. We were starting a business from the ground up. People were showing up left and right. 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Visiting a Planned Parenthood Clinic that provides abortions, something no president or Vice President has ever done before. The Vice President toured the clinic, met with providers, and delivered remarks where she directly called out elected leaders its states that have restricted or banned abortion. In this environment, these attacks against an individuals right to make decisions about their own body are outrageous and in many instances just plain old immoral. How dare these elected leaders believe they are in a better position to tell women what they need, to tell women what is in their best interest. We have to be a nation that trusts women. Harris also highlighted