Transcripts For MSNBCW Katy 20240703 : vimarsana.com

MSNBCW Katy July 3, 2024

Classified documents created by members of the intelligence and military presented to the president of the United States during his term in office were purely private. And that trump himself didnt even raise this defense until more than a year after he left the white house. Decide now and give us enough time to appeal. Smiths team is pleading. After all, the president ial records act isnt even what prosecutors have charged him with violating. Its the Espionage Act. Judge Aileen Cannon has yet to respond, but as we wait, what might jack smiths team really be getting at. Former prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst, charles coleman, and legal correspondent, lisa rubin. This was a biting moment from jack smiths team, and it went further than any other legal filing that weve seen from anymore in regards directly to judge Aileen Cannons own decisions. And the frustration almost leaps off the page. I want to give you and our viewers context, we are dealing with a judge who has left undecided a number of really important issues as we approach a trial in this case for which a date has not been set. And yet, despite that, she has asked both sides to propose Jury Instructions on this particular issue rather than submit Jury Instructions all at once as is conventionally done. What the government is saying is this is basically like a bad car crash between two totally different statutes, you have the president ial records act over here, the Espionage Act over here, and shall the two meet until now that one preempts the other. Explain the president ial records act and why it is even at issue here. So the president ial records act, the purpose of that was to enable the government to hold president ial records after a person leaves office. It was to protect the government, not to protect a president , but trumps people are citing a provision that says the president in their own discretion can designate Certain Records that are private of a purely personal character as president ial. Trumps argument is that he could have, not that he did, but that he could have and had the legal right to designate all of the records hes accused of willfully retaining as personal and that by taking them with him when he left the white house, that is essentially the designation that he made. But, charles, hasnt the trump team filed a motion regarding this trying to say this case should be thrown out of because of the president ial records act, and if they filed a motion on it, why doesnt she just decide on that motion before, i guess, what does it mean to have her have the Jury Instructions be laid out before even deciding on that motion . Well, katy, were not trying to necessarily read the tea leaves as it relates to Aileen Cannon because if you do, youre all over the place. Your question in and of itself, how its framed, appropriately framed, illustrates to our audience how backwards Aileen Cannon has been from the start, before the actual indictment itself, in terms of how she has ruled around this investigation, even when you look back to the decisions around the Special Master or what was allowed, what wasnt allowed, preindictment, when the investigation was taking place. Aileen cannon has shown a very strong history of being partial toward donald trump. That is the most basic way that i can play this, and if youre talking about what it looks like now, what its really shaping out to is skewing the calendar in such a way that her decisions will come down at a point that is ultimately prejudicial, what jack smith is arguing against the prosecution and prevent the trial from Going Forward before november, which is exactly what they will like to perform. If she doesnt decide on this, say it goes to trial, is there a scenario where she could decide on the president ial records act herself, even before it gets to the jury, charles . There is, and i think that ultimately what jack smith is looking for is if thats the way youre going to go, lets get that done as soon as possible, so that i can move forward and appeal. Without seeking damage, which is basically allowing the 11th circuit to instruct her on what not to do or moving forward in some other capacity on appeal. What he wants is a decision thats made, either you are going to put the argument to bed around the president ial records act entirely and leave it alone so that donald trump and his defense team can no longer touch it or grant that request, move forward in that way and give me the right to appeal because this has no business in this conversation given that he is not charged with violating that, but that he is charged violating the Espionage Act. Because of that, hes trying to put pressure on her, make a decision one way or the other so i as a prosecutor know what im dealing with. Theres a wrinkle here, theres two options, she could not decide on it, and then at the end of the trial say that you can give Jury Instructions based on the president ial records act. Theyre worried that might prejudice the jury, and they wont be able to come up with a conviction, because thats not at issue and not what theyre arguing, tell me if im wrong about that. She herself could say at the end of trial, you havent proved your case. Thats correct. Donald trump is not in violation of this and throw it out before it gets to the jury. The governments concern about both scenarios is the same one. Jeopardy attaches, meaning you dont get a do over, once you seat the jury. Once the jury is empanelled, thats it. No double jeopardy, you cant get tried for the same crime. Whether or not this manifests as a judgment for matter of law or in Jury Instructions that sets the jury down an erroneous path and leads to an acquittal. Both are unacceptable to the government because it leads them without an option for appeal. So we have been talking about this now since she was assigned to the case. We have a history of judging Aileen Cannon, we have seen the way she ruled, the way the 11th circuit has overruled her, and the question has been will jack smiths team at some point try to get they are removed if she doesnt, i dont know, behave as most judges normally behave, federal judges. What did you read from this filing about his intentions regarding that angle . Hard to say, however, i think theyre increasingly moving in that direction, but the difficult thing for them, katy, they cant ask the 11th circuit to recuse her, divorced from appeal. She has to make a decision one way or the other for them to go. What if she makes no decision . They can go to her and say you have demonstrated prejudice such that were asking you to take yourself off the case, and if she says no, as i would expect that she does, then they could appeal that to the 11th circuit. I think in the first instance, they would rather ask a federal Appeals Court to take her off the case, and do that tethered to a particular decision rather than a lack of any decision or delay. Theres no trial date set. Its supposed to be in may. She had a hearing to set a new trial date and has not decided when that trial would be. Thats a couple of weeks ago. Lisa rubin, and charles coleman, thank you as well. A day after the stock from Media Company plummeted, donald trump is suing his truth social cofounders. The Lawsuit Allegations wes moss and former contestants, mismanaged the platform, and bungled their duties so badly that they should lose their stake in the company. Joining us now, cnbc Senior Analyst and commentator, ron ensana. How can donald trump do this . Im not sure he can. It seems like a grab to get 440 million worth of stock back into his hands. Those two gentlemen, by the way, are suing donald trump, alleging that hes trying to increase the outstanding number of shares in djt, which would dilute their ownership. Its a twoway lawsuit. Very hard to tell exactly what hes suing them for given that the company has not been managed terribly well at any step along the way. It took in about 4 million last year and lost nearly 60 million, so not quite sure whos exactly to blame for the poor performance of the social Media Company that in size, revenue, profits, pales in comparison to any vehicle thats out there. You think this is potentially a money grab . It seems that way. Whether he tries to dilute them by increasing the number of shares and reducing their stake in the firm or whether, as hes already done, sued to get their shares returned to the company and it appears its a money grab, and hes trying to lock them out of the Company Whose idea belonged to them, and approached them some time back. How much money can they grab when the stock is tanking . A diminishing amount. The president s stake has grown. Its now trading at about 48. Today its down 6 . If indeed he were to increase the number of outstanding shares, that would drive the stock down even further. So, you know, this is all the typical type of trumps gamesmanship that goes on in his business world. Its not necessarily part and parcel of the Way Companies going public typically operate. Ron insana, thank you very much. And coming up, a change to the way electoral votes are awarded. What it would mean for President Biden in november. Plus, donald trump as the savior . What believers are saying about the former president s path to office, and how donald trump is capitalizing on it. And later, no witnesses, no evidence and a ticking clock. Ho us republicans Impeachment Inquiry into joe biden, President Biden, is drawing up. What theyre now doing instead. 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Vaporize sore throat pain. vo if you have graves disease. And blurry vision, you need clear answers. People with graves could also get thyroid eye disease, or ted, which may need a different doctor. Find a ted Eye Specialist at isitted. Com. The way Electoral College votes are awarded might be changing, and it might benefit donald trump. Nebraskas republican governor has endorsed a shift to a Winner Take All approach for the states 2024 general election. As of today, nebraska and maine are the only states that split their electoral votes by congressional district. Joining us now, Nbc News National Political correspondent steve kornacki. So explain this to us, steve. Why would this change the calculus for both President Trump and President Biden . Its one electoral vote but it could be very significant. Take a look, this is where things ended in 2020. Biden winning 306272. Just because of the census reapportionment, some states gained electoral votes, some lost, the same combination, if you reran under the new math, it would be biden 303, trump 235. Trump would start out with three more votes than he finished with last time. If trump is going to beat biden, whats his most efficient path . It would be winning the states that were the closest that lost. The closest would be arizona, 10,000 vote margin. If trump got arizona, the second closest would be georgia. If trump got georgia, it would be 262. Now, thats where things get interesting. Because as stands right now, to get over 270. He would have to win, pennsylvania, michigan, wisconsin, but watch this, because the Trump Campaign thinks it can flip nevada. It lost by about two points in 2020. Republicans are really bullish about their future there demographically. Lets say trump, instead of winning anything in the industrial states here, lets say trump was able to get nevada. Under the current math, that would be close, but he would just miss. He would be at 268, and thats where the change, potential change in nebraska comes in. You can see the stripes here. That means biden did get the electoral vote in 2020. If nebraska goes to Winner Take All, the district that went blue around omaha in 2020, doesnt matter, the whole state would be red. All five electoral votes would go to donald trump. It would be that 269269 tie, that would go to the house of representatives. Each state. Not each member. Each state would get a vote in the house of representatives, and republicans are likely to control more State Delegations than democrats, so the expectation is that if it ever ended, 269269, go to the house, it would be advantage trump, so thats the significance of nebraska. If that happens, trump can get the presidency with georgia, arizona, nevada, and he wouldnt have to touch one of these Big Formerly Known as blue wall states. Steve kornacki, thank you very much. And still ahead, the prophesy of donald trump. Plus, what israel still has not said about World Central Kitchen and what israelis are demanding right now of Benjamin Netanyahu. Netanyahu. I know what its like to perform through pain. If youre like me, one of the millions suffering from pain caused by migraine, Nurtec Odt May help. Its the only medication that can treat a migraine when it strikes and prevent Migraine Attacks. Treat and prevent, all in one. Dont take if allergic to nurtec. Allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. Most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. Relief is possible. Talk to a doctor about nurtec odt. Its time. Yes, the time has come for a fresh approach to dog food. Everyday, more dog people are deciding its time to quit the kibble and feed their dogs fresh food from the farmers dog. Made by vets and delivered right to your door precisely portioned for your dogs needs. Its an idea whose time has come. What if you could go from this to this. With just one step tresemme silk serum. Time for the ultimate humidity test. Weightlessly smooth hair your turn. New tresemme keratin smooth collection. The trumpet, the trumpet. He who blows the trumpet, so look at this, when does he come to power, the year of jubilee, 2017, god puts trump in power for the year of jubilee. He had to be elected when he was. There is a religious movement growing around donald trump, which might explain why you see trump hawking god bless the usa bibles, the only bible endorsed by the president of the United States. That clip we played you isnt a oneoff. Its not something you have to look hard to find. Theres a whole corner of the internet devoted to donald trump as the savior, the fulfillment of prophesy, and its taking root in the real world too. Just listen to some of his supporters at a rally in iowa earlier this year. I feel like im in his shoes here. Its just like an example i always give. I say when jesus died, he died for us. He felt what we felt. He was wounded for transgressions, bruised for inequities. By his strife, we were healed. He did it for us. So when trump is facing all of these things, hes doing it for us. In our place. So now its up to us to feel what he feels as well. We represent him in localities. When they are indicting him, we are being indicted. When they talk negative about him, they are talking negative about us. My first thought went to, well, jesus christ died to my sins, jesus died for me, and so it connects in my brain that way. So what exactly is going on and why are so many eager to anoint the gop nominee. Joining us New York Times opinion columnist, david french, and john gans, writer of con man conspiracist. David, special thank you to you for pointing us in the direction of some of these clips we just played. Talk to me about donald trump as the savior. How did this come to be . Im so glad you played the clip because its extremely representative of what were dealing with, and so what you began to see really all the way back in early 2015, is a number of people in the movement, its not just hes destined to save the country but it gets very elaborate. Later on in the same clip it talks about how you can read the bible and find the date of Donald Trumps birth prophesied in the bible. Its remarkable stuff, and so you begin to see how people are forming this kind of cult like following because they believe to the core of their being that donald trump has a divine purpose. As one friend of mine told me, she said, david, i was with you on donald trump until the holy spirit told me he was gods man. And in that circumstance, it becomes very difficult to have a conversation, to have a conversation about policy, about character, because what are you going to say, the holy spirit didnt talk to you. It gets very difficult. But this helps explain a lot of the zeal. I wonder, though, how this attached to donald trump, david. Theres always been religi

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