Welcome to the beat. Im ari melber. With all the trial news we have been covering, the top story is political news that will help decide the election. Because it usually does. Today, President Biden and donald trump both agreed to do two new president ial debates. The first coming next month. Capping weeks of posturing and negotiation. That breakthrough came today as the Biden Campaign took control of things with a plan that was months in the making. Biden using this video to publicly challenge trump. With two partners on board. Abc and cnn. If a debate starting next month sounds different than usual, earlier than usual, it is. This will now be the earliest general Election Campaign debate ever. And that matters actually not only for people tuning in and paying attention, but also for the political strategy at play. Which we will get into right now. The times reporting this is what biden wants for a couple of reasons. Democrats think early voting helps them more than the other side. I cant tell you about the future but i can tell you the reporting suggesting this was a strategic move for biden because they think that will be true again this year. And they definitely dominated in early voting in 2020 when they defeated and ousted then President Trump. The highly watched debates tend to mobilize people. Just about everyone knows that. Democrats are thinking that jump starting the general election season early will be good for biden. They hope it will benefit them because instead of this abstract discussion about joe biden which as you know includes talk about his age or how he looks or how he sounds which is kind of an incumbent focused view. The times and other outlets suggesting they think the side by side, his age to trumps age . His presidency to trump on trial . That direct contrast which hasnt kicked in for people outside of news junkies, that will help them. Ill tell you something else. This new Development Today which no one knew was coming. Biden dropped the video and it came into focus quickly. It opens the window on something interesting. It suggests how joe biden who is the oldest president ever, thats a numerical fact running against one of the oldest challengers ever. Donald trump. They are both older. But, it shows how biden is actually still very open to brand new strategies even that break tradition. A june debate means trump will be on face to pace a verdict and a debate in the same month. And that could make for some unusual news cycles to say the least. It could push against trump or for him if he does come off new york prosecutors failing to convict him. So, there is a lot to think through here. But when you take 2020, the history, what we have learned, remember, those were debates where joe biden and trump clashed a lot. But people really got a closeup of the comparison and it was what led to biden beating an incumbent president which is never easy to do. Lets take a look at 2020. We handed him a blooming economy. He blooming. Joe. I ran because of you. I ran because of barack obama. Because you did a poor job. Anyone who is responsible for that many deaths should not remain as president of the United States of america. We cant lock ourselves up in a basement like joe does. One of the most racist president s we have had in modern history. I am the least racist person. Im not going to answer the question. The question is. Will you shut up, man. Then President Trump did not exactly shut up, man. But that moment encanneslated something then. And remember, it worked for biden them. It also shows why there is such wrangling over these debates because they have new rules that the Biden Campaign has been victorious on that will limit both the crowd and the Interruption Aspects which donald trump used not so much to win the debate on its own terms but to hijack it or short circuit it. Thats just about observation. If you are a super trump fan, you might say great. If you were a biden fan or someone trying to listen to both sides you might think gosh, this got got really out of control. Some more facts for you tonight. The debates will be in atlanta. The end of june. Then in september. That first debate will not have a studio audience. The rules and the Formatt Bradleyers a lot. The Biden Campaign took the lead here. Edge yeared this to some degree. Got trump on board. Without the fans he loves to appeal to in the room. This bypasses the Bipartisan Commission that has organized these debates for many, many decades. It ends that tradition. As with other washington traditions, other people invest in them. They say oh, we cant change this. And other people say anything new is a risk. It is a type of risk to do this without the commission and its structural historical advantages. But clearly, the Biden Campaign think this is the better way to go and we should note, the reporting is. And theres letters to this effect, they talked to the commission about trying to do other things and they viewed it as an unwilling collaborative partner. As we have seen this president deal with other institutions, they have had a whole running back and forth with the New York Times and the commission. There are a lot of people around biden trying to send a message to the washington powers that be. They dont need you. They dont need you like they used to. And they will cut you out if they have to. As for what trump is up to, you avoid debates. There was a president ial debate tradition. But in senate races around the country, this is done more ad hoc. If you are up 10 points and you are the incumbent, you skip debates. Donald trump was the former president runing in his primary and knew he didnt need debates. They only had a downside for him. Remember, we lived through it. Trump didnt do any debates against the republican rivals in the primaries. The broader context here is a matchup that has problems for both sides. Again, when you are the incumbent president , you get a coverage, and scrutiny. But for all the discussion of joe biden and the economy and the mideast and the international problems, a lot of valid criticisms, politics are he doesnt want to just be assessed only on his own record all year. When the question is always in life and in politics compared to what . The truth is i just mentioned some of the factors about why there is not great enthusiasm for joe biden. But there actually isnt much enthusiasm for either of these candidates. Both of whom have been in the white house and are well known by voters. We have seen for many months most americans actually dont want this rematch at all. And trump who has now been running unopposed since he became the presumptive nominee of his party is still losing. This is just among people who show up in republican primaries. Some of them are open and closed but you see the numbers. Since nikki haley dropped out, it is not 5 , 6 , 7 . It is double digits. Big red. Pennsylvania, 17 . Arizona, 20 . Those are people showing up to republican primaries and choosing something other than trump. If he only gets 80 of those kind of republican votes, in the general, he will lose. But theres a long way to november. The significant share of republicans basically are still trying to figure out whether this is what they want to go with. Remember, i is a id this before. If you are saying okay, ari, dont people know these are the only choices . In the Mayor Parties . Dont people see this is what we are dealing with . Short answer is no. Not everyone follows this closely. Not everyone remembers when nikki haley dropped out. Not everyone is counting down the months to november like we might in our news room. And so, as the choices become clear, republicans say the numbers you see on your screen will go down. The antitrump vote will go away. But the biden side of this, the reason they want the other debates is they think his lackluster approval numbers are not great, will go up when compared to trump. Compared to the guy on trial. Compared to the guy if you follow the news saying things that are literally more autocratic and dictator than anything he has said. The president is making his appearances while trump has been in the trial four days a week. Senator mitt romney who knows about the debate stuff, he was asked about this today. I told you this all broke today. Here is what he said about how it might go. The image that. Cos to mind is those two old guys on the muppets that sat in the balcony. That comes to mind. But i think there will be a huge audience for these debates. As the old saying goes, wakka, wacka, wakka. We do know the old muppets and the candidates. Nothing wrong with being old. It usually just means you are alive and have experience. And if there is going to be a giant voting block that only wants candidates under 40 for president , they will just be disappointed. These are the current choices of the two parties. We live in a two party system. If you watch this program, you may know we have covered some of the problems with the two party system and why there should be two choices and we have had candidates on from third and other parties but the numbers have not demonstrated anything like a perot level factor and he didnt win either. The news when it comes to debates. The muppets had a large audience and the debates tend to have a larger one. And our polarized era where people go to different corners of the internet and watch didnt tv channels and it is true up to a point. There are certain big events in sports and politics that do bring the whole country back together. Maybe not agreeing together. But watching something together. They used to call it the mono culture when everybody listens to the same beatles albums. When you talk about it, you are discussing the same album rather than one versions qanon lie about the album. And someone else actually listening to the album. So that is what the super bowl is like. And if you look at 2020, the first debate, thats what it was like 73 Million People watching that debate itself. Plus tens of millions more watching clips. That meant that 100 plus Million People in a very short amount of time could actually discuss the same set of facts. Imagine that, america. Almost downright Old Fashioned in a good way. So why did the Biden Campaign make this move . Why make it now . Why are they up strategically . We have two absolute political pros with us. Mark and joe. And we are back in just 90 seconds. No cap. Just 90 seconds. No cap. Shop etsy until june 16th and get up to 30 off fathers day gifts that go beyond the classic goto. Save on personalized gear, and other things dads dig. When you want a oneofakind gift to show him hes 1. Etsy has it. But st. Jude has gotten us through it. St. Jude is hope for every child diagnosed with cancer because the research is being shared all over the world. Donald trump lost two debates to me in 2020. Since then he hasnt shown up for a debate. Now he is acting like he wont debate me again. Make my day, i hear you are free on wednesdays. That is the one day when Donald Trumps criminal trial is not in session. Free on wednesdays is the new trial burn. It only works if you are running against someone facing a criminal trial. No other president ial candidate has ever done this. Run during a trial. Now, we have with us two pros in this whole landscape of president ial politics and debates. Joe and jim. Cocreator of show times the circus. And joe i try to be fair. I have had Trump Lawyers on this week. I have had biden officials. I try to be fair but i have to say, mark has a better hat on than you. He does. And i would agree with that. Mark, this both matters for the reasons i said. It is one of the only times where the whole country sees the same thing in politics. How rare is that . It did help biden last time. No idea who it will help this time. Speak to us about the aspect, and the pure politics of it. The biden folks thought the outcome is clearment they needed to do something and this is how they want to shake it up. This is the smartest thing the Biden Campaign has done yet. Both strategically, tactically on every level. It was not sustainable the notion that biden could go this whole campaign and not debate. Ultimately he was going to have to. It shows weakness and problems. And what would have happened is it would have been months and months of stories of trump dodging the debate. It communicates enormous confidence and enormous strength. And by the way, as joe knows, the most important asset you can have is the perception of strength. If you are not debating it shows weakness. If you throws down the gauntlet, that showing strength and i love that it caught the Trump Campaign off guard. By doing this. He does it on his terms without an audience. On every level, this is a Master Stroke of strategy for the campaign. Do you think they were worried that rfk might meet the Commission Threshold . We had rfk on this program recently. He was very bullish on his own chances. His polling hasnt been as good as it is in his mind. But do you think that is a factor . Absolutely. There is no question the debates are the most important time during the president ial campaign. 75Million People to watch the last one. This would blow the numbers out of the water. 100million plus. It is an opportunity for somebody like rfk to get huge exposure and now he wont get it. The Biden Campaign strategy is just suffocate him. Deny him the oxygen so i think it is a smart play. I think thats right. It was a really smart strategy. For the Biden Campaign. It shows strength and and they had him. How could he say no . To two debates, wherever biden wanted to have them. And under whatever rules biden wanted with no audience. Is second thing is i dont know if rfk would have qualified or not. Mostly because forget about the percentage that you need to get to. Im not sure he will be on enough ballots. Hell be on plenty of ballots but im not sure enough to win 270 electoral votes. I asked him about that. When he was on here, he was on about four states. He said they could get to ten immediately. They werent at 30 or 40 at that time. In the last month. I still think this was about making it a binary race immediately as soon as possible. Whether that, how much that impacted rfc actually impacted the decision. The Biden Campaign knows that they benefit from making this Trump Versus Biden and that contrast that you talked about, ari, that his office, through 2020, 2022, and i think in 2024. That contrast has benefited biden and democrats. The contrast between trump and maga and biden and democrats has benefited biden. And the debate in 2020, the first one in particular, i was looking at focus groups back then. And the number of women who were disappointed in trump because of his abrasiveness. The way he carried himself. And were mildly surprised. Positively about biden, was remarkable. I really do think the debates really help shape that contrast. Let me play some of that. Because mark i mentioned this in our setup and i really mean it. You go on the internet which is a wonderful place to connect and learn things. When i was growing up, we didnt have total internet saturation. And now, you can learn something about a village in africa you would never know. Its amazing. It is also just this endless pile of ignorant hate. Including large parts of the internet i feel are like a book club where no one has read the book. Everyone is yelling about the book they havent read. With donald trump and joe biden, you could talk to people who dont follow and they will Say Something based on a four or six second snippet. And they have this view of him. It is my job to talk and listen to people. Can he even walk . I hear that. That is their perception. Yes he can. And it is a hard grueling job. He has been traveling all over the country. I think it is fair the say both men are older than the usual candidate. I was with trump this week, he also can walk. Neither of them look like they cannot move around and do the things they do. But in the side by side, it seemed to hurt trump last time. Take a look. Under this president , we become weaker, sicker, poorer, more divided and more violent. He doesnt want to say Law And Order because he cant because he will lose his radical left supporters. He said maybe we should drop a Nuclear Weapon on them. I never said that at all. Mark . Thats a good example of what could happen. The big question for joe biden is, is he up to the job . And fairly or unfairly, his age comes up. How competent is he. Physically, mentally capable is he. Well, hell have an opportunity to show that on the stage with the other guy who is also old. I think this could be the most consequential debate in american history. Really . Yes. Absolutely. Because there are so many questions about both of them at this point. And age an acuity is a very real question. This will be the opportunity to get out there without a net. Without a note. And show whether or not you are up to the job and whether or not you have the strength and capability to stand on that stage and i think it will be, it will game set match in these debates. Joe, we have 30 seconds. He got two different tennis references. You get 30 seconds. I think biden will clean his clock. Because trump has set up, such, hes the one out there every day saying the guy cant walk. He cant talk. He cant do anything. He is senile. And trump cant change his tune. The same thing. These groups biden has to win back. The haley voters. How will he say anything that atracks people to him . He will push them further away and biden will be sitting there being much stronger than trump has made him out to be. That is why i think there wont be a pass. But he will knock trump out i think. Our producers will put up the muppets one more time. Because mitt romney made this comparison. I just want to say i hope to have both of you back on this program for so many years to come you get to your own muppet. I aspire to be a muppet. Ill try. We are going off the romney reference. Mitt romn