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Just arrived at the central matter of this case. What did donald trump know about the Hush Money Payments to Stormy Daniels. Im Chris Jansing alongside my colleagues Andrea Mitchell and katy tur, along with her notes and Court Sketches. I wont show you the Court Sketches which are no good. Before the break, trumps Defense Attorney was most fired up, the most fired up we have ever seen him, and i had personally seen in person raising his voice while pressing Michael Cohen about whether he lied about a critical 2016 phone call to donald trump, and by the way, ladies, the jury was reacting. Im sure they were, it was during that call, that important call that Michael Cohen says he informed his former boss about the payment. But according to the defense, cohen only spoke to mr. Trumps body guard about a teenager who kept prank calling him and the call was only about 1 36. Yep. I want to bring back our panel, nbcs Vaughn Hillyard and also joining us the conversation, former u. S. Attorney and msnbc legal analyst, chuck rosenberg. There was two lines at the end of what was probably the most dramatic we have seen so far, this back and forth about this phone call, either ending it and saying the lunch break took the wind out of its sails and left the jury with the idea that hes Making Points now. How do you see it, and where is he going from here . I think juries look at this, chri holistically. What is the jury left with. My experience having done this for a while as a federal prosecutor, they really do look at it holistically. I think the tell will be how the government treats it when they have an opportunity to redirect. Do they see it as a problem, if they saw it as a problem, do they want mr. Cohen to address it, fix it, clean it up, if he can. And how both sides handle that issue in summation, in argument. Can i make one point, and if im being too simplistic, theyre not going to lunch and chatting about what they just saw. I think its important to point that out. Theyre not supposed to be. Theyre not supposed to be. The jury is told not to deliberate until the evidence has been submitted and they have been instructed on the law by the judge. What is your experience . Youve got two lawyers on this jury, and i dont know whether that has any kind of impact one way or the other. I was never allowed to have lunch with the jury, andrea and never allowed to talk to them. Have you ever served on a jury . I would love to. I dont think i would be selected. They dont strike us. I would love to. I was struck twice. We were not allowed to talk to the jury even after the verdict and the case has been resolved, finalized. Can i give you a little bit about what it was like in the room. We had spoken a few minutes earlier before the end of the morning session, and i wasnt expecting to get a john grisham moment. You asked if there would be an ahha moment where the defense said you lied, and i have to eat my hat. We had that moment pretty much after i walked back in. Todd blanche was questioning Michael Cohen and it was about this phone call in 2016 where he told the Stormy Daniels matter, told him it was taken care of. Todd blanche gets up and shows a whole new set of phone calls, logs, and this is between Michael Cohen and Keith Schiller, and also some Text Messages regarding Michael Cohen and the 14yearold who was harassing him. Hes laying this out. And i looked over at laura jarrett, where is he going with this. And he says you made a phone call to Keith Schiller in the moments after you were talking about this prank call you were getting from this 14yearold. Did you have a conversation with him or with trump about this 14yearold and Michael Cohen starts to waiver. And he says you know what, i dont remember these things. Its the first time that i have seen these Text Messages. Todd blanche raises his voice and says you lied about this. You didnt know that you had a conversation with donald trump, and Michael Cohen wavered and it was a moment that the jury really, i mean, they sat up in their chairs. Some of them looked like they were laughing. I mean, eyebrows raised. Todd blanche was really, like, very emotive. Michael cohen was on his heels. And it was hard to tell in that moment whether the jury was reacting to this moment that Michael Cohens caught in something or if they were reacting to todd blanche himself who had been so calm, and serene. He was theoretical, you lied, you were wrong about the call. Whether they were reacting to him suddenly becoming this theoretical lawyer that you would imagine from a john grisham novel. What does the prosecutor do . And thank Goodness Catherine is here too. It depends. Michael cohen could have been lying. Could have been forgetting. Could have been forgetting about being right, and could have been forgetting about being wrong. The prosecutors ostensibly know which it is, and you would look to redirect if this is something they feel they need to direct again. Can they say there were so many calls between you and Keith Schiller is it possible you confused this with that one, and maybe it was this call. And again, you know, these things, innocent failures of recollection happen all the time. By the way, so do lies. And a trial is a process to try and separate those two things. How does the d. A. Take this . When i was walking out, the consensus among the report ers and lawyers were that the prosecution was going to have a long night trying to figure out how to clean this up. As chuck said, they know the truth. Now, did they scrub, like, oh, we dont show that or is the prosecutor sitting there saying, you know you saw that. Why are you lying. So they know what happened. Now, because hes in the middle of crossexamination, they cant speak to him. They cant clean it up until the crossexamination is done. His lawyer can speak to them right . His lawyer can speak to him but the lawyer is not going to have the information that the prosecutor is going to have. Depending on what the truth is and susan harbinger knows what it is, then you can redirect and say, you saw so many texts so its easy, so we will find out on redirect. Were just five minutes away from the presumably the crossexamination continuing, but i want to bring in in the interim, the attorney representing Stormy Daniels, clark brewster, so good to have you with us. At the center of this is the question of whether or not this conversation happened about Stormy Daniels, what Michael Cohen says happened in this call is that mr. Trump, as he puts it, he spoke to him about Stormy Daniels the way it was wrapped up, he said based on the records that i reviewed and in light of everything going on, i believe i spoke to mr. Trump about the Stormy Daniels matter to which blanche says, we are not asking for your belief. The jury does not want to hear what you think happened. Theres an objection to that, by the way, which was sustained. Which was sustained, and we know its already there. And he rephrases it. Based on what i believe, i believe i was telling the truth. Is that as big a deal as maybe some folks make it out to be . What do you make of that moment . I would say that theres been so many different conversations from the fall of 16 leading to January Of 17 that cohen testified about in communications with the president at the time, President Trump, and theyre corroborated by so many details. The fact that on this one occasion he might be wrong about whether he spoke with trump or schiller i dont think is really a water shed moment. It might make a point for the cross. Looks like he got caught in the cross hairs of indecision or lack of memory or maybe an inconsistency of some type, but i dont really think that makes the day. Theres so much corroborative evidence that they were having this communication and that the actions taken to quiet Stormy Daniels was directly, you know, orchestrated by trump. He was a hands on, you know, Decision Maker from my perspective from what i have seen. I was hearing in my head, being in a store, clean up on aisle 6. Is there a clean up that needs to happen here, and how does it go . Ill tell you, these prosecutors are very sharp. I worked with them pretty closely with regard to stormy and her witness appearance. And theyre just very diligent, very careful. Very thorough. Are you surprised that they seem to not have been seen by Michael Cohen before, these exchanges, these Text Messages . I think they probably were, but were talking about years of messaging back and forth. And his phone was downloaded and given to the prosecution. I would imagine theres a tremendous amount of documentation with regard to not only the phone records, the communications, emails, and such that it might have been that day at that moment, he didnt recollect that particular communication. I will tell you this, confidently, the prosecution wont miss tricks here, they will come back and put in the proper context for that cross. How is your client doing after her testimony from last week . She has a great deal of fear about the unknown or what someone might do. Theres a lot of rhetoric out there. Shes concerned about her well being. But i think shes relieved that shes off the stand, and she was, you know, thoroughly examined, and i think theres just a feeling of relief that thats behind her now. Thats a good thing. In the documentary that was on peacock, we often saw her, at least several times, following the News Coverage of the story as it was developing. Is she following this trial now that shes no longer on the stand . Yeah, shes following it. I dont know if as closely as some. But i stay in close contact with her. If she has a question or two, and she has been following it. Shes well informed, and shes been following it. I know theres Attorney Client privilege. Are these questions of law that shes asking you about because she has watched the trial . You know, she hasnt really watched the trial. I mean, for the comforts of the trial, sorry. Yeah, no, im mixed. As long as i represented stormy more than five years now, theres a relationship of trust and communication. We just dont talk about just the trial. Theres a number of things in her life she might want to discuss. Theres a mix. Theres a little bit of instruction going on inside the courtroom right now, and to give you an idea of whats going on. There was a moment earlier in the morning where the defense was implying that there was some sort of misconduct between one of the prosecutors investigating this case and Michael Cohen in regards to the unsealing of an indictment. The prosecution really wanted the judge to cure it. She wanted the judge to give jury instructions. Merchan was not excited to do that. Thought maybe it could get cleaned up by todd blanche and redirect by the prosecution. Theres a bit of an argument about it. Merchan asked for the jury instructions, steinglass says the only relevance to this line of questioning about rosenberg, the prosecutor, and Michael Cohen is an improper leak that Michael Cohen or Jeremy Rosenberg engaged in misconduct. Theres no other reason to ask the questions, and respectfully this is not something that could be cleaned up. It should be cured by court. The court is giving numerous records, and clarify any suggestion that there was impropriety. Blanche says there were texts between cohen and the detective where the detective says they told the New York Times before they told you, nevertheless, its done. Blanche adds the detective assigned to the case it was appropriate it was done. Im happy to clean it up. It shouldnt been an instruction from the court. Merchan says we know you left the jury with a mistaken impression. Im going to give mr. Blanche the opportunity, and if im not satisfied, i will take care of it. That sounds like a judge being judicious. Hes giving the party an opportunity to fix something that he the judge believes was wrong. Thats actually quite generous of the judge. And take him at his word. If its not fixed to his liking, hell fix it. From a jurys perspective, the judges words carry great weight in a courtroom. When the judge says something, they listen. When a litigant says something, a party, listen, not with the same intensity. What about if the defense and blanche gets up and says, i want to clarify something that i was asking about before. What if he says, might have been a little bit misleading, and i want to set the record straight. And i have done that. Ive made mistakes in the courtroom. Im sure catherine has made mistakes in the courtroom. You tell the judge, and if necessary, you tell the jury. I said something earlier that was wrong. I apologize. And thchs was the issue of how the New York Times got the indictment. Michael cohen is coming back in. He is passing people like matt gaetz. Can i just tell you about a moment with matt gaetz and lauren boebert. They walk in, and they turn to each other, and there was a moment where they both looked back, and then the two rows of the defense lawyers, and guests turned back, and theyre just looking at George Conway. Basically saying to each other, it seems, what is he doing here, and then a little bit later on. Gaetz wasnt in the courtroom any longer and neither was boebert, they were doing a press conference outside, but alina habba, and she and eric trump both looked back and saw George Conway, and said something to each other, and smirked and kind of made gestures to one another. And then for the lunch break, they walk out, and alina habba just struts over and just gives this glare to George Conway, right in his face. He has been so aggressively critical. But it was so aggressive in the room, at least on her side of things, and George Conway was just sitting there, and the rest of the Press Gallery were stunned to see what was happening. It was just such a surprising moment. The sort of thing you only see in the courtroom. Was it you who described it as a mean girls moment. You just had this crowd behind donald trump who, you know i dont know if youre looking over at the lunch table. These people have past complex prior relationships. They have a long history between each other. George conway, kellyanne conway, wanted to be part of the administration. Michael cohen going back decades with the trump team, and allen garten, they have long and complicated histories. And to the extent the jurors can recognize. When alina habba was passing George Conway, the jurors were out of the room. These people who have such intertwined histories, i mean, Donald Trumps future could be on the line. Definitely. Definitely. Its been really remarkable to see in person, and i will say, the jury was paying close attention. Thats all you can ask for in a moment like this. Sitting there as the prosecution or defense, are you singling out jurors in your mind . Can you read their mind based on their facial expressions . No and no. Im watching the jury because i want to make sure theyre listening. If im losing the jury, i want to know that. But trying to guess what the jury will do or what an individual juror is thinking, katy, i think thats hazardous. Its tea leaves. And so ive never tried to do that and i would have gotten it wrong. Danny cevallos, you are a Defense Attorney, and the moment from todd blanche before the lunch break where he raised his voice and said that was a lie. It got the attention of the jury. But from my perspective, e couldnt tell if the jury was amused at the circumstances, the catching of Michael Cohen in a misremembering of facts or if they were chuckling at todd blanche and his performance. Two may have been related. Todd blanche may have planned it in a way so it would be timed with this moment of high drama as hes asking a question that he thinks is important that he wants the jury to listen to. Lawyers never, we talk about it a lot, like we can figure out jurors. The reality is none of us ever know what a juror is truly thinking. If you ever talk to them after the trial, youre shocked at what they focused on or what direction they were heading. I cant tell yo