If donald trump is found guilty after closing arguments, he will not only be the first criminally indicted former president. Hell be the first Felony Convict to have held the presidency and who is trying to hold it again. If so, what will it change about the race. We have polls that suggest it will matter, and polls that suggest it will not. We just wont know until we know. Which is why the Biden Campaign is trying to put the onus of beating donald trump firmly on the voters. For one person familiar with bidens plans for a more aggressive posture, Donald Trumps legal troubles are not going to keep him out of the white house. Only one thing will do that. Voting this november for joe biden. President biden and his team have barely mentioned the indictments and the trials, instead, trying to focus voters on trump as a threat to democracy, and a threat to women. But is that enough . In a survey after survey, most voters say their Biggest Issue above democracy, above abortion is the economy and a feeling of insecurity. That feeling is especially persistent among younger black and brown voters who say President Biden hasnt made their lives better. Just listen to a few of them who showed up to see donald trump in the bronx of all places. Its too much crime. Everything is going downhill. The economy is going bad. The food is expensive. Its like Affordable Housing is not for everybody. Its horrible. I want food cheaper, the gas, i want gas cheaper. When i came and he was the president , the gas is a lot cheaper than it is right now. Now were becoming the bronx second class citizens. We have this influx of migrants coming in, and theyre getting everything. And everyone in the bronx in the city of new york is forgotten. Listen, it is exceedingly unlikely that donald trump would win the minority vote in this country, but when the election comes down to a few states and maybe 10 to 30,000 votes, peopling off even some of these formerly Firm Democratic voters could be a big difference maker. Joining us now, nbc News White House correspondent mike memoli. Nbc News Washington correspondent, yamiche alcindor, and New York Times chief White House Correspondent and msnbc political analyst, peter baker. Mike, im going to start with you. How is the biden team trying to look at these rallies that donald trump is holding, having a rally in the bronx, did that Shake Anything within the biden team about their approach . The biden team is not necessarily worried about Donald Trumps campaign tactics. The rallies are a staple of what he has been up to. They are concerned about the fact he has been dominated the Media Landscape for as long as the trial is going on. I was talking earlier this week with a Senior Campaign official about the impact the trial has had. They held their hands out like they were handcuffed to say the campaign has been handcuffed by the inability to get their message out, as long as this trial has been dominating the media attention. And so thats why youre seeing this potentially new approach, once the trial wraps up, regardless of the verdict, guilty or not guilty for the campaign to come out swinging hard. If trump is convicted. Theyre considering branding him as a convicted felon. If theyre acquitted, theyre looking at a similar situation to what they found four years ago when candidate joe biden was struggling to gain transaction ahead of the iowa caucuses, New Hampshire primary because of trumps impeachment trial, in the closing days before iowa, it was candidate biden saying The Die Is Cast here, trump will be acquitted and the onus is on me to beat him in november. Thats going to be the argument if indeed trump is acquitted because the Biden Campaign thinks that the biggest problem that this trial has posed is its increased the doubts among those least engaged voters who still for whatever reason dont believe trump will be the republican nominee. Once the trial is over and once theyre on a debate stage in a few weeks, that will crystallize the Biden Campaigns view and the choice that voters face. Whether you like that these are the candidates or not, its donald trump versus joe biden. Do they feel theyre able to get the message out on the economy . That is certainly what every poll across every Age Group Shows is the dominant issue for the voters. Thats what Biden Campaign wants to do more of. Having the president showing the empathy, he understands voters are feeling the pain, hes doing everything he can, and you have heard him in some of these events hes doing, maybe not as much attention trying to crystallize as a choice of joe biden who have used the economy through the lens of scranton, Middle Class Upbringing Versus Donald Trump on the side of the wealthy and those campaign donors. Thats the choice they want to get in front of voters. They have been having a hard time doing it. Talk about the latest in the double hater series, whach you found . Its been interesting, and people getting familiar with the term, double haters. The people who dont like former President Trump and also dont like President Biden either. We had a focus group of Latino Double haters who were living in arizona, and they told us that they were really worried about the economy, which is of course one of the top issues, but also about the border. They didnt like the handling of both. Take a listen to what they told us. I feel like they both contributed into not having washington have any sort of deal in regards to immigration. I feel they both played a part. You dont hear him speak about the border or push for any change or policies on the border, and thats all you would hear about trump, he would talk about a wall. At least he would thats something. Keeps denying the border. Keep saying that its being taken care of, being taken care of. I dont think bidens done much of anything. Trump was very aggressive with immigration, and i feel like biden just let it unravel. Really what we heard from people is they do think that former President Donald Trump would do a better job with the border, but they also blamed him for Border Legislation not going through congress. They acknowledge one voter especially acknowledged there was a deal on the border and that it was donald trump who said he did not want to support that. That voter said he wants this to be a live issue because it helps him. So really interesting things that we heard from the voters, katy. Peter, i want to broaden out for you on this. I came across a david brooks article from a year ago, asking the question, what if were the bad guys here, talking about the way that these issues are framed, donald trump and a threat to democracy, and abortion, of course why would you ever consider voting for him, that there is something that the people who see that are missing. And he writes this, the idea that were all in this together was replaced with the reality that the educated class lives in a world up here and everybody else is forced into a world down there. Members of our class are always publicly speaking out for the marginalized but somehow we always end up Building Systems that serve ourselves. I was struck by last night in the bronx, one of the things that came up among the voters there was that the migrants were a problem, and they were taking away services from people in this city who needed the services, and i think thats a really good example of what david brooks is arguing here, which is that you have the meritocracy up here, the people who have achieved and earned and are in a cycle of selffulfillment, and everybody else fighting for the scraps down here. Looking for somebody to portray that anger, donald trump has successfully been able to convince you he is that person. Yeah, no, he is. The irony of course is a new york billionaire, but somehow he has framed himself as a populist champion of destroying the status quo, and whatever the status quo you like is, you look at him as your warrior, in effect, and that could be a Culture Warrior Kind of status quo, an economic status quo, it could be, you know, immigration, race, religion, values, all of these Different Things that some people feel are, you know, out of whack in america. He is embodying the Sledge Hammer to the establishment, and the establishment has worked well for those who are doing well, and so theyre not looking at trump that way. They look at him as an agent of chaos and destruction. Tearing down institutions and systems that have worked at least for those parts of america for many many years, and i think thats the dichotomy. In some ways, obviously its an election about joe biden and donald trump, but also an election about america and where americans are at this point, and how they feel about this country. And to be fair, most americans arent happy with either candidate. They dont want either candidate to be running. They dont feel like this election is representative of what they want, this is the election they have. I wonder, do you think the biden team is on top of this . Are they missing something here . Is there messaging that donald trump is a threat to democracy. Donald trump is a threat to women. Compelling enough voters for them to beat him, and i asked that because i had David Wasserman on of the cook political report, and they had a survey that said, the majority of voters realize that donald trump is a threat to democracy, and they think he might want to become a dictator, and hes a threat to womens health. They worry about their pockets more, their economic outlook, and not that theyre doing well now, but they might not still be doing well in the future. Theres a feeling of insecurity looking beyond today, into tomorrow, and they think donald trump is going to be better able to protect them economically. Yeah, and theres a disconnect, obviously, between statistics and perception at this point, right. We saw polling just this week, i think, that showed that half the country, maybe even a majority of the country believe were in a recession. Were not in a recession. Thats just a factual statement. Many americans believe that, you know, that the stock market is down, when in fact, of course, it is up. Many people believe that unemployment is at a 50year high, when in fact, actually, it has been the lowest it has been in 50 years in terms of a streak turned 4 . Theres a perception that things arent going well among the lot of people, even if the statistics are telling them otherwise, and the Biden Campaigns challenge has been trying to communicate a message to the country, and it hasnt worked. Bidenomics, they tried to market it. It didnt work. People dont want to be told the economy is good if they dont feel that way. How does the Biden Campaign get through. Theyre stuck in this awkward position, eventually people would see it in their own lives that gave them faith and confidence in where things are going. That doesnt seem to be happening at this point, and were very close to the point where people start Casting Ballots and perceptions are locking. Joe biden won partly because donald trump was doing such a terrible job with the pandemic. Now that the pandemic is past, it does seem, peter, theres a pandemic hangover. Theres pandemic ptsd, and i wonder now if joe biden is the one that is suffering from that pandemic hangover, this feeling, this lack of optimism that americans have, that optimism that seemed to be stripped away because of what happened to us during the pandemic. I think were at a period of what we would call the jimmy carter area, kind of a malaise at some level. A lot of americans feel upset about the pandemic, as you say, not excited, not enthusiastic. Theres a lot of feeling that the schools let kids down, and the kids are trying to catch up. You know, theres a sense that the economy hasnt fully recovered, even though, again, by most statistical measures its doing quite well. Better than large economies around the world. The perception hasnt caught up, and look, is this sour period in our history more generally . If you look at the poll numbers, it will show you that most americans believe that the United States is on the wrong track now, going back to the bush era. Halfway through george w. Bushs presidency, the number of americans on the wrong track fell below 50 . Its been a prolonged period of disenchantment and disillusion. It can be played out different ways, outside versus inside, Establishment Versus disruption agents. Were in a period in the history that the pandemic has only accentuated, where we dont believe in the country the same way we used to. The country was misled into a multidecade war in the bush era that were suffering the consequences of. Peter baker yamiche alcindor, mike memoli, thank you so much. What Senate Democrats are asking chief Justice John Roberts to do about the flags linked to january 6th rioters. Senator Sheldon Whitehouse joins us. First up, what russia and north korea could be planning around the president ial election in november. What they might want to do. We are back in 90 seconds. Ght wo we are back in 90 seconds. Heres to beating these two every thursday. Help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need. Without the stuff you dont. So, heres to now. Boost. Feeling claritin clear is like. [cat meow] is she . Letting her imagination run wild even though she has allergies. Yeah. Donald trump said he quote fell in love with kim jong un through handwritten love letters, and expressed more trust for Vladimir Putin than he did his own intelligence agency, and now the Biden Administration fears both World Leaders could be teaming up to intentionally stir up trouble ahead of the november election. Six senior u. S. Officials tell nbc news exclusively that there are concerns russia and north korea are planning an October Surprise that could benefit donald trump. Joining us now, Nbc News National Security correspondent courtney kube. Explain this reporting. Reporter so u. S. Officials here have been telling us for weeks now they are increasingly concerned about seeing actions out of north korea that could be some of the most provocative mission actions, to Something Like an underground nuclear test or firing some artillery or some sort of interactions back and forth with south korea. Now, its not uncommon for north korea to act up, to increase their provocative actions during an election year, but the officials told us they are watching for the possibility that these actions could be closer to the election and that there may be some tie with russia here, that russia may be this new strengthening relationship between russia and north korea could be encouraging north korea to do things that could impact the election later this year. Now, there has been this relationship. Weve seen it unfold over a matter of months. North korea has been providing russia with millions of rounds of artillery and ammunition that made a difference on the battlefield in ukraine. In exchange, russia has given north korea, food and oil, and maybe some money. We are told that north korea is asking for other things, and theres increasing concern, katy, that russia could be providing them with some advanced technologies, particularly in the world of Nuclear Submarine technology, advanced Missile Technologies that could lead to north korea advancing some of the military capabilities, further than we have ever seen, katy. Courtney, what are doing about this . The u. S. Has reached out to north korea and made it clear that they are open to diplomacy here. They are open to speaking to them. North korea has shown no interest in that. In fact, everyone is thousand watching to see what happens in the possibility that donald trump is reelected, as you mentioned. He and kim jong un did have a relationship. There was diplomatic back and forth during the trump presidency. The question is can there be some diplomatic overtures during the Biden Administration. One thing we have also seen historically is when the u. S. And north korea are talking or even if theres a possibility of talks, the provocative actions by north korea do decrease. Courtney kube, thank you very much. And what happened inside a Delaware Courthouse where hunter biden is facing felony gun charges. Sheldon whitehouse joins us after the break. What he asked chief Justice John Roberts to do about Justice Samuel alito. Liberty mutual customized my Car Insurance and i saved hundreds. Thats great. I know, ive bee telling everyone. Baby liberty. Oh baby liberty. How many people did you tell . Only pay for what you need. Jingle liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Baby liberty. psst psst ahhh with flonase, allergies dont have to be scary. Spraying Flonase Daily gives you long lasting nondrowsy relief. Flonase all good. Also, t