Vance is a big liar with abandon. Those are three of my many takeaways of your show that i just watched. Those are some good topline. Better than chatgpt could do. Yes, very good. Well, i was actually watching. Have a great night, chris. Thank you so much. Thanks, jen. So, this is the little, white schoolhouse in ripken, wisconsin. That is literally it's name which is so quaint. The little white schoolhouse. It was built over 170 years ago, back in 1853. That unassuming little gable roofed building that you see right there is still there today, still standing there today, because in 1854 just one year after the little white schoolhouse was built a group of people got together in that little white schoolhouse, and came up with an idea that would end up changing the course of history, in many ways. At least, political history. At the time, america was hotly divided over the question of state slavery in the newly established kansas and nebraska territories. The people who met in that building, in that little white schoolhouse, decided they should start a new political party, a coalition party that brought together members of the whig party, and the free soil movement, and even some disaffected democrats who offered very different political visions for the country, but who were all united against their opposition to the moral crisis at the time of slavery. Now, they decided to call their new political party, the republican party. And the rest, as they say, is kind of history. The republican party would, of course, become the party of lincoln, the party that would end slavery and establish as one of america's two major political organizations, as one of the next century and a half, and still today. And it is one of those greater tragedies that the republican party of today is no longer that coalition of people committed to the idea of fighting back against america's worst impulses. Because today's republican party is instead a cult of personality. That basically revolves around one guy, donald trump. But, there is still moments of greatness, because today in wisconsin, the birthplace as i have just walked you through of america's grand old party, and you kind of coalition came together, to put its own stamp on american history. Earlier this evening, a republican chair from iowa you can see him right there took to the stage to introduce another republican, the daughter, of course, of a republican vice president who has long been despised in many democratic circles for his role in pushing america into the war in iraq, a woman who was once a member of republican party leadership, serving as the chair of the republican party conference just three years ago. Yes, she was there. Along with other republicans, as part of a new, wide reaching, basically moral coalition who stood on the stage with the democratic nominee for president, kamala harris, and said this. I tell you, i have never voted for a democrat, but this year, i am proudly casting my vote for vice president kamala harris. [ cheers and applause ] [ crowd chanting ] thank you, liz. Thank you, liz. Thank you, liz. Thank you. But mostly, we're not going back. [ audience reacts ] i ask you to meet this moment, i ask you to stand in truth, to reject the depraved cruelty of donald trump. And i ask you, instead, to help us elect kamala harris for president. There are so many powerful forces that have been intent on trying to demean and belittle, and make people afraid. And there are many who know it is wrong, and then there are those who have the courage to speak out loudly about it, and the conviction to speak truth. And, you know, it is so admirable, when anyone does it, and especially when it is difficult to do in an environment such as this. But, liz cheney really is a leader who puts country above party and above self. Now, you might be sitting at home and thinking and you hear this a lot this doesn't matter. Nothing matters. Liz cheney is not going to move the election. I mean, i happen to think it matters, but listen, maybe you are right. But, here is the thing. Wisconsin is a state that has been won or lost by less than one percentage point in the last two elections. It is always close, it is going to be close. And in that context, pretty much every vote, every new coalition matter, everything may matter. This endorsement and cheney's decision to campaign for harris are also not happening in a vacuum alone. I mean, in the last few weeks, over 100 former republican officials have endorsed kamala harris, and believe me and they have said this it is not because they agree with everything the harriswalz to get believes or is advocating for. It is because they both feel, as liz cheney said today, that putting patriotism ahead of partisanship isn't an aspiration. It is a duty. Cassidy hutchinson lifelong republican, even though she is quite young but she has been a republican her whole life, former trump white house egg eight. She put it this way with my colleague last night. I am really, really proud, as a conservative, to have the opportunity to vote for kamala harris and tim walz in this election. I say to republicans who may be on the fence, i understand how frightening it can be to potentially break with your party, but donald trump and jd vance cannot be trusted with the constitution. They cannot be trusted to uphold our rule of law, and they can't be trusted to enact responsible policy. So, of course, it is great, it is good to have republicans like liz cheney, and cassidy hutchinson, and the more than 100 republican officials who have endorsed harris all speaking out about the fact that one candidate will defend the constitution, and one won't. But, here's the thing, there are a whole lot of other republicans, prominent ones, who have voiced their opposition to trump, who have expressed concern about very specific things, like his ability to serve as commander in chief, about his temperament, even about his rowdy, that have still thought stopped short of endorsing his opponent, kamala harris. Look, i will call them out because we need to. People like mitt romney, who said he fears trump will target him and his family, if re elected. People like former president george w. Bush, who trump has castigated and attacked at every turn. People like john kelly, who said that trump has nothing but contempt for our democratic institutions, our constitution, and he would know, he worked for him. And people like mike pence, who would definitely know, whose life was literally threatened by trump and his mob on january 6th, and whose safety was a matter of such indifference to trump, wanting only a so what? look, i'm not saying it's easy. As cassidy hutchinson just said, it's not easy, it's never easy to go against your own political party. Liz cheney has definitely felt the consequences. She was excommunicated from the party that she spent her life that his father spent his life serving in. But, as kamala harris said tonight about the threat trump poses, there are many who know it is wrong, and then there are those who have the courage to speak out loudly about it, and the conviction to speak truth. So, mitt romney, george bush, john kelly, mike pence, we are 33 days from an election. If you aren't going to speak up loudly now, your moment to play a role in the history books may be passing you by. Joining me now are van winkler, chair of the democratic party of wisconsin, and atlantic staff writer, mark leibovitz. Thank you both for being here. Mark, i will start with you because you are sitting here with me. Now, you were with liz cheney when she came out and endorsed kamala harris. So, that was a significant piece of news. But, i want to ask you this, does it matter? because you hear that a lot, do you think it matters? 100%, it matters. I think there is this cavalier brushoff you hear from republicans, oh, well, liz cheney was booted out of her party, she lost reelection. You know, there is no constituency for mitt romney, for liz cheney. I mean, first of all, tens of millions of americans voted for dick cheney for president, for mitt romney for president. And then, there is a different category, which is the mike pence, the paul ryan, all of which have been on republican tickets, who have said they are not voting for donald trump. They have not gone the full nine yards, none of them except for liz, that have said they are going to vote for kamala harris. But, listen, the key words here are permission structure. There are tons of republicans out there and former republicans out there, and independents out there, who voted for donald trump in the past, who voted for many republicans on presidential ballots and down ballots over the years, who need that extra push. I mean, you get some credit, i guess, if you were going to say, no, not voting for donald trump. But, you get full credit if you vote for the one person who can beat him. Let me ask, because you have covered all of them, as well, you have covered mitt romney, all of these people. Sure, yeah. They have something to lose, certainly, as liz cheney did, but what is holding them back? is it that, or something else? that is a mystery. There are different categories here. Pence and romney both said they are not voting for donald trump, both for personal and unsurprising reasons. Often, these are cutesy things, like we are all right in, romney, or ronald reagan, or whoever. I don't quite know why they say, because they are protecting themselves i don't understand what is stopping them there. Then, the whole other category, you don't know what paul ryan is thinking. George w. Bush so, in texas a couple weeks ago, when i was interviewing liz, and a couple days earlier, she had endorsed kamala harris. I asked her if her dad was voting, who her dad was voting for, she said her dad is voting for kamala harris, made a little news. But, the predominant followup i heard from a lot of people that day was, where is w? when are we going to hear from him? and i don't think it is that big of a deal, because i think there is a pretty solid core of republicans, but some really big names are out there, who haven't really spoken out. I think, look, this is as it an existential of an election as people have said, i hate to be overstating this, but i think it is that big. And you are right, the dick cheney news, that was really big. Let me just go to you, let me ask you a similar question no pressure, but wisconsin is kind of a key decider in the outcome of this election, as you know well. It is also the birthplace of the republican party, as we all have been learning over the last 24 hours. But, as you have talked to people after that rally and even in advance of it, how much do these endorsements of these national security officials and republican officials matter to the voters you are talking to in your state, who may be on the fence or waiting, as mark just said, for a permission structure? these things do matter, and they matter to two different groups of voters. There is one group of voters that are the typical swing voters that people talk about. These are people who don't pay attention to politics, who think about politics the way that you and i think about the javelin at the olympics, which is something that we are vaguely aware happens every four years, but it is not something we are seeking out. For those voters, just hearing that democrats and republicans are all agreeing that kamala harris is the person, that might filter through, that might matter for some of them. But, there is a different group, who are the high information, highly engaged, highly principled, conservative republicans, whose first and core fealty is to the flag and to the constitution of the united states of america. For them, liz cheney shows that you can be yourself with your conservative commitments, but put country over party, over anything else, and cast a ballot that still retains and actually builds on your integrity as a person. Opening the door for those voters, who normally would not be swing voters in any stretch of the imagination, that can happen in the states that is likely to come down to less than one percentage point. That is why today's event was such a game changer. It was i wasn't there but, you were a really compelling event to watch on television. I mean, the other question i have just been wanting to ask you, who are these undecided people, and what are they waiting to hear at this point in time? i mean, how do you assess the percentage of, or number of undecided voters in wisconsin? kind of, what are they on the edge over? so, it is less than 5% of the electorate at this point, and we are doing everything we can to reach them, while also reaching all of the floats folks who will vote for harris if they vote. There are thousands of people with absentee ballots in their house right now, who haven't returned them. Anybody who wants to help us reach those folks, go to democrats. Org and chip in for our get out the vote operation. These voters are mixed. Some of them are people who are very conservative, generally vote republican, but think that the abortion ban is an on cross the line and they are trying to think, cannot really vote for someone who supports an abortion ban, given that they agree with me on other things? for some people, it is the opposite, there are some people whose faith tells them they could never vote for someone on the other side. That group is a lot smaller, i will tell you. But, who agree with kamala harris on taking on the price gouging big companies, and think that they will be better in the economy if they vote for harris. Some of them are people that think all politicians are crooks, they are fed up, they kind of like that donald trump is at least obviously a crook. For those voters, talking to them about how their choice will affect their life directly, the $4000 trump tax, that and the abortion ban, those things can make a big difference. And some have cross pressure, complicated mixes. You sometimes read about the median voter in a poll, i talked to those people at the door, they have a grab bag of views, it is about showing up, listening to them, engaging, and connecting on a level of shared values, often with local, trusted messengers that makes the difference. Then, there is this other group, the conservatives, often veterans, who are infuriated about trump's disrespect for the core of this country. Those people are out, too, in a different way and today's event helps us reach them. That is interesting. To the point of those veterans and those people that was a very comprehensive breakdown. That is why he is such a good state party chair. One of the things that struck me watching the speech today was that the messaging of it i mean, patriotism, love of country, a big chunk of the speech on ukraine, those are obviously messages that work very well for liz cheney. But, that is a speech, i think and you tell me if you agree here that could have been delivered by a pretrump republican on 33 days out from an election, in many ways. What do you make of that messaging? you know, you are trying to reach a lot of different people at this point in the election. Yeah, you could have heard that speech from mitt romney, from ronald reagan, from any number of what we would call, i guess, mainstream republicans, right? and liz cheney does very specifically narrow your focus to the constitution, to the rule of law, and also foreign policy a little bit. These are three core pretty traditional republican constituencies. And liz didn't get into this, but also part of it is, just trump's conduct, just basic decency i don't think it is liberal or conservative but there is a very basic american tenant that you have heard her alluding to, repeatedly, and i think that is part of the harriswalz message, just basic decency. I was out with walz a couple weeks ago, you just hear nothing, but neighbor, neighbor, neighbor, that is a big word you here with both of them. So, i