Thank. The the. I. Dont have a. I. Mean ive been up with. A low in welcome across top where all Things Considered im Peter Lavelle ever since they arrived. All of Boris Johnson to 10 downing street there is a growing sense have been evident ability that breaks it will be executed on october 31st with or without a deal do we get to this point what lessons have been learned or should have been learned. Cross knocking bags and im joined by my guest were now here are to in paris he is chief Foreign Correspondent at le figaro in london we have allister donald he is an associate director at the academy of ideas and in edinburgh we cross and john white he is a political commentator and writer originally cross titles in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate let me go to john in edinburgh 1st here in my introduction i said theres a growing sense of inevitability that we will have brags that on the 31st here and my off the mark go ahead john i think with a ton of answers you need slightly off the mark because there is one hell of a bottom to completion and if you keep all of our well orders johnson is. Trying to shoot almonds and i suspend the moment for 5 weeks and having bricks it so well i dont think it is inevitable now i think it me be more inevitable that well see the end or distortions very short term in government its a general election does come to pass that his statement that you know save the colemans and im saying is plan for parliamentary procedure to ascertain whether he will get as we get breaks it delivered on a Technical Support or what it reminded me of neglect church esquus and to missed last speech and because its an 889. 00 evolution 8 years of the protest it was almost succeeded in germany and voters chosen him so this is a tory establishment in complete and utter traces unable to loot and the already and i think the creator says no maturity but it is beyond bricks that will remain and even be argued over its never about this corner relic of the British State and i dont really stand on the ground of socialism or solidarity with Jeremy CorbynJohn Mcdonald at all or only get over it oh yes but. John im. It respect about we feel about it its still on the agenda here let me go to reno in paris i mean what what could Boris Johnson get from the europeans from brussels that to resume couldnt ok because hes saying hes still open for a deal even if the window is only a matter of days that are open go ahead in paris. No i dont think that he will get anything because for 2 reasons number one the big countries are really fed up with this british visitations. That you know like 60 years old so theyre really fed up and the 2nd thing is its too complicated to have like 27. Countries agree on the new proposal because for Foreign Affairs matters you need. So technically the techniques of a European Union its too complicated so Boris Johnson will not get. Anything more he has been told that by. And by emmanuel in paris ok the same thing to you i mean it respective of how democratic or undemocratic the tories. Gambit is here it is ramming it through it but Boris Johnson and his associates will say but this is what people voted for and hes just doing the will of the people irrespective of well its a bit devious but then politics and being devious are synonymous so go ahead alistair in london well yeah i think thats correct that hes. On a democratic mandate and hes trying to get to a situation where the u. K. Actually leaves the European Union the problem just and the problem that hes got in terms of concluding any of these arrangements by the 31st of october is that steadily and even. And rapidly the rulebook has been torn arpan terms of how politics works theres all sorts of constitutional issues being arranged with parliament grabbing hold of the order book and determining the order of business theres legal challenges to what to his capacity to get us out so i think all bets are off just now in terms of whether he can get us out by the 31st of october and you know 6 you could argue that and indeed i would argue that those people who want to delay brecks its in fact want to do much more than that they want to actually stop that and right from the outset the mechanisms to stop or exit those are have always been posed in a kind of democratically friendly way but that mass their real intent which is really to stop or exits away other lets say with intentions i like that look this go back to admiral john i mean to resume was the worst person possible to negotiate brags because he didnt believe in it ok she wasnt she was the remainder now we have Boris Johnson which with very kind of a checkered past hes really kind of grabbed this thing and made it his own and hes going to fall on a sword one way or another when it comes to braggs it here but least hes really stop him hes going to get this done deal or not to go ahead john well their own. Nation. Under we ready dont know who actually is being released to test the legality or. Should we dont know that question is yet to be determined and of course the series out you know a bit of dynamism a book oddity of girls there are also a cultural corpus that was really lacking in our culture our spirit realm it was treason was his base but given what hes trying to do in the last week it was all true to use a queen to give them permission to suspend parliament of weeks early. Shit thats all chines and i think that the plane get is issue shout be against im idol think theres huge out of date for whom back to their mean i sent me it some would use of course you to be in an election to and the referendum pillar because not because i support you look at course i believe this is a kitchell hugh our be watched and it is east but i think theres a sigh a ship towards a new khushi a t. Bricks at rather than or bracks i think matts you tube ault or or which most people are standing in on this issue at this current moment take both course it is a huge amount of breaks its a cheek a nickel she people want to see this this old one rear the other look tired of talking about a and i take to hes of meat theres a lot of criticism for the read it she dili dell and along with 13 or these past 3 years and hes dealing Good Solutions with the well i or anyone let me go to pay you impairs im im sick and tired of talking about brags it is well i mean from the president position in europe a mean it this bill lay aid to lay a 3 months 6 months i mean you need to cut the gordian knot ok and i did i would suspect since Boris Johnson and his supporters are determined to have egg regs it executed than make at the 30 firsts and be done with it i me why i keep delaying it ok i mean uncertainty is the worse thing in politics go ahead in paris yes i think the were thing it was thing and put exam in the United Kingdom is a mario throw the world forward so ole democracy but on your to a pen matter is british policy and british a democracies are total failure there didnt want to go do the beginning you know in the confound also of missin in the the confidence of room in 57. 00 they didnt want to draw on the Common Market their tried to do something a competitor of the government good which didnt work so when theyre realize it men work they are asked twice to for a to talk of the going to the Common Market so are the twice then they insisted again and again and finally the and then they needed a new refund and and then thatcher came and said oh but i dont like the rules i have to change their own and so on and so on we made you know they didnt want to utah so its their way voting and now they decided by referral and them to leave but even to leave its complicated with them i mean after 3 years they dont know what they want and the house of commons does not know what it wants and so i think at least with Boris Johnson we have. Square policy i dont believe that it is the interest of britain to leave the European Union but it is britains problem and britains this is it but at least. In my view is doing square and the stand the ball politics. Let me go to alistair i reflected by what we just heard from our guest in paris interesting go ahead yeah yeah i think the thing to understand here is the shift thats taken place over the course of the last 3 years we had the referendum in 2016 the Political Class were overwhelmingly for remaining within the European Union and the vote went against them so it came as a real shock to them the initial response from theresa may is as as been say it was one of fundamental a damage limitation in terms of how the how britain withdrew from the European Union she wanted to moderate the way that we withdrew so that we could retain as many links as possible and stay in sync with with our European Partners the problem that shes hard and the problem that boris faces just now is that the damage limitation hes faced with is the very existence of the conservative party because the people have taken against to raise a maze. Poor attempt to leave and continued to exert pressure on us to have a break from the European Union so boris is forced into the situation of desperately trying to leave in the 31st of october because he has he has the challenge of keeping his own Party Together personally im not convinced that he wants a new deal breaks that i think this is a ploy for him to come back with some sort of moderated version of the Withdrawal Agreement which i dont think will be overly different but which he can hold up and say well this is what ive won were going to leave so i think you know his problem is a tricky one and the situation were in just now is that in a way the middle ground the more moderate positions of fall in the party you remain yourself become ever more confident that they can push towards a situation of revolt and those that one breaks that have been forced by the remaining pressure to avoid leaving to go for ever more radical solutions which is ended up with the desire for a clean break system or no bricks it or however you want to phrase it ok well its there its very interesting here i like what you said you went with the you have been the moderate views on both sides of the issue kind of fading away but thats what makes october 31st day or do were die in a many ways for both sides here are a gentleman after a short break well continue our discussion break stay with. The word of this you know so many people referenced the Marie Antoinette let them eat cake and then you know historians have gone back and they said you know its actually like its 30 ish brioche you know that so i brought in actual what a mess we brought in actual brioche this is a brioche just by the slice there at the patisserie and so this is what she suggested that the best of this should be eating. Because they run out of town they say this is a british is a slightly nicer version of theres a few in the cupboard lets throw that to the peasants and maybe theyll shut them up but. I. Ready ready ready am sure to stop at the 2 during their grow. I just never know very good about the idea of bringing. It into the world because i didnt feel like things were in very good shape that a life was just going to be a lot of software programs. Theres no reason. To take things that are to me the theres no reason to make something. To everybodys scared to talk that survival is really dependent on us addressing this issue and if we can even talk about it every chance even have a conversation or that it then. Were in trouble ready. Welcome back to crossfire where all things are considered im peter and were discussing braggs it. Lets go back to john in edinburgh ok lets work under the assumption that briggs it occurs a risk even if its on october 31st or january 31st of next year its happened at sites are supposition right here theres a lot of talk here that the you know we you k. Will drift into the us or bit because we have people like secretary of state mike. Peo just essentially drooling over the possibility of a new trade agreement with the u. K. Which of course will have all those political attachments and it would be a deal with Foreign Policy i mean is this something thats going to happen because i think a lot of people on both sides of this issue say britain cant stand alone its going to have to choose one side is that really an outcome that a lot of people that voted in the referendum are interested in seeing happen go ahead john no i dont think it is and i think thats why it was a lot of opposition both into part of johnsons attempt to root through you know direction because of the trauma administration you know the trauma mission and both antipathy towards multilateral institutions and multinational trade in blocks and it prefers to deal and by lead to the on a bilateral basis no the all seeing rules that only the strong can compromise and all of the equals can Reach Agreement look good and does come cold and shivering out of the e. U. Are there any deal that it will be vulnerable to any day tasks that trump then goes on and you see from this past week he slipped out its not on the order americas adversaries but also it on its allies canada and france so everyones greatly worried about what this would intil for britain Going Forward clearly what is about the future of the n. H. S. A National Health service which is a free Health Service at the point of need was introduced by the course for liberal government and is a shining example of social solidarity and action and people are worried about how this survived in the trunk gets his hands on it because we know that the us corporations are see the n. H. S. As a glittering price and Boris Johnson has secured given guarantees bearable guarantees of the n. H. S. We see it but how can we do that for sure conditions on the cheap deal with us in the u. K. Of course predicts a future will be imposed by us more than we buy and so yes i think people are rightly concerned about donald trumps. Intentions towards britain. Its feeding a lot of the opposition even only. Across their children whats your reaction now let me go back to paris here i mean i really appreciate how you characterize the u. K. s relationship with the your you were European Union for during and i want to talk about after what kind of relationship what kind of constructive relationship do you think the e. U. Will have with the u. K. Post braggs it i mean im sure that between france and britain the defense cooperation will go on because its very important you have to realise that britain and france are the 2 only nations in europe that are ready to fight that have soldiers ready to get killed to kill because an army is done for that you know and we saw it everywhere was through it in bosnia for instance and other. Armies in europe unfortunately use that for for for some foreign operations if you like you can rely only on britain and france who are 2 Nuclear Powers who have a corporation in all fields of military including the Nuclear Field so i think that britain will remain a very Strong Partner in defense 2 fronts as far as the special relationship with america of course it will go on but you have to remember remembers something that theys a big difference between some and Boris Johnson that you saw in ballots Boris Johnson said openly that is pro free trade when of course is a protectionist and then also boyce would have to remember that british be. Bill is a proud people and they dont like when its too open to clear that britain is the pool of the United States and when it became too poor to clear you know in you remember this summit in some part of the book when when w. Bush called blair or your ask him to come like a pull to his seat you remember that scene and because of that. The labor party actually and britain fired tony blair as the Prime Minister because they cannot Business People are proud people and they will not be the poodle of america and you have seen that in the g. Brought our prices in this grace one iran and ship that. America for another you know. British accident again the iranian ship and britain well you. Will not be a total of prudence i mean legally its a really good example let me go to our excellent example but if and as i mentioned if a new trade deal between the u. K. And the United States is dictated by the United States then youre not going to have that kind of freedom here im thinking about iran for example where france has the european position and the u. K. Would be open to a lot of pressure by the United States to side with it when its a very unpopular policy around the world the british the british would be reduced to having to have to follow orders and i think again thats something thats not really been discussed very much im on the brakes its i dont get me wrong ok but there are a geo political implications of it go ahead alister. Well yeah the huge geopolitical implications i mean i think though the thing is that if we come out of the European Union with anything approaching a clean break where we have the ability to make our own policies are and then to enter into negotiations then were in a better position than the decisions been handed dow