World has already arrived. Cross talking of multipolar world im joined by my guest james detritus in washington hes a former u. S. Diplomat and former advisor to the u. S. Senate Republican Leadership also in washington brian becker he is director of the answer coalition as well as host of loud and clear daily new show on radio or a gentleman cross talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate james let me go to you 1st im the reason i want to do this program at the end of the year is because we tend to look at events in a micro fashion you know whats going on in this country that country Trump Administration brags that you know which of course we do in the news media but i sometimes think that we love we miss the very big very big pictures of whats going on and the major changes that are happening around the globe and and the International System. And this whole idea of a multipolar world which is kind of foreboding to talk about in western media because by default it means the west loses something and somebody else gains something is that one of the reasons they dont like to talk about the coming of a multipolar world go ahead james i think it is peter i mean look youre right i think a multi polar world is a de facto reality now unfortunately that is the last thing that the establishment in washington wants to admit that they are committed still to this unit polar notion that emerged with the end of the 1st cold war in the early 1990 s. The idea of the United States is the unique power the only really legitimate great power in the other ones have no alternative but to accommodate themselves to the wishes and diktats from washington and even when that policy has visibly failed for example and ukraine or in syria or and in other places that they are committed to you know for example nord stream to were still trying to sabotage that even though its quite clear to me that that attempt has and has failed that they cannot let go of this notion that that other powers do not have to ask a mother may i every time they want to do something that is in their National Interest and this is something that the people in charge of these tablets been in washington just cannot admit to themselves you know brian you know Francis Fukuyama comes to mind you know the the end of history in the last man and that is really what buttresses is going to tear a page from what went. Is that they cant imagine a world differently but it mean if you think historically well this is what the trends are countries go up countries go down countries make accommodations and some countries go to war the cities trap for example but it seems to me that the washington establishment of Foreign Policy blom theyre in a state of stay cis is a they cant imagine the world changing beyond their own expectations and maybe even interest go ahead right. Indeed i mean we saw the white paper that was leaked to the New York Times shortly after the collapse of the soviet union Paul Wolfowitz was its real author but that was in fact the de facto sort of new doctrine for world dominance presented by the United States after the collapse of the soviet union what that white paper made clear was that the u. S. Wasnt going to have a peace dividend that because the cold war was over because the warsaw pact had had disintegrated that then nato could be disarmed in the u. S. Could use all of the money spent on militarism and war to help human beings like pay for health care or Affordable Housing indeed what the white paper established was that the u. S. Must now seek to carry out unit polar dominance over all other potential rivals in the world and the and the letter says very clearly we will allow no potential rival d to challenge us dominance and thats been the operational principle for the last 27 years but in fact its come apart its come apart because the u. S. Got bogged down in the wars in the middle east while china came up it got bogged down in the wars in the middle east while russia got back on its feet and so these 2 other Major Centers of power china and russia big enough big enough economies and Strong Enough militaries and large enough population wise of those 2 countries have come up now both russia and china said look lets make this when when our growth our development doesnt have to be your include the American Government doesnt see it that way you know thats such a fascinating point you know because james with rising powers they could potentially in a way we have to stress the word potentially be a threat to the unit polar moment i mean would it be kind of maybe a better idea to engage them instead of you know turning them into hostile rivals and thats it. Sadly what weve seen happen. So a a rising power by definition is a threat again that is a historical which need you could look at a number of times through history where rising powers you have to accommodate the International System why because it works for everybody you that what we have now its in washington is having the very idea of when when is antithetical to their hedge of monic demands go ahead james exactly right and i think as as as brian pointed out of this idea that somehow our dominance was itself the goal not even necessarily what that gets us as a country how does it make our people safer or more prosperous and if you compared to the alternatives in history for example if you look at the the long piece from 815 to 914 where britain was the leading power but it also understood the other powers france germany russia had legitimate aspirations on the world stage and there was a balance among the powers were not willing to accommodate that even though we are here in the western hemisphere were by nature the most secure of the great powers we could accommodate the russians and the chinese understanding that they have legitimate interests and legitimate sphere of influence we would still be the leading power the us and much the way that britain was during the 19th century but thats not good enough we have to have absolute dominance we have to deny legitimacy to those other powers and and ironically we didnt even do that during the 1st cold war with the silver union we were actually much more respectful of the soviet union and its interests even though there were some real ideological differences in those days it was an illegitimate for example to have a neutral powers i mean neutral countries like austria sweden finland that were buffers between the 2 blocs we dont we dont accept that anymore we have to have our writ go right up to the borders and territorial waters of russia and china not to mention iran or venezuela other countries that we simply want to. Destroy so i dont think these people have a sense of history and how a balance of interests can be beneficial to our own country exactly you know you know brian on top of it you know this mantra to get rid of arms control which is terrifying in itself we all remember the cold war and i think we all remember the good reason to have arms control i mean this is willfully creating instability in the International System its willfully being done because this is what kept the peace and thats what these agreements were people invested in major powers invested in them to make them work now we have this the opposite we dont even want to talk about arms control but i mean this is truly dangerous for the world system go ahead brian. Indeed you had the Nuclear Test Ban treaty of 1963 that prohibited the atmospheric testing of Nuclear Weapons that was something that was very good we had the 1967 outer space treaty we had the salt treaty then the start treaty start one we had the Ballistic Missile treaty the antiBallistic Missile treaty all of those treaties all of them are gone with the exception of the start treaty which is going expires in 2021. Thats going to expire and theres no negotiations right now as of yet underway there are starting to be some talk about negotiations but bush got rid of the antiBallistic Missile treaty that was in 20022003 putin says that was the beginning of the modern era of the break up of the cold war architecture for Arms Treaties now trying just got rid of the i. N. F. The intermediate Nuclear Range treaty and one of these guys is clearly. Open open skies as well open skies and nato 2 weeks ago declared that the outer space is their new fly wharf i didnt mean in contrast to the outer space treaty where the major powers said no were not going to fight wars in outer space now thats what were fighting domain so the reason for it the real and youre talking about big picture peter the real reason is the u. S. Now believes now believes that it can actually gain military supremacy and thus dominance in these different war fighting domains and thats what the u. S. Had basically been forced to abandon during the cold war once the soviet union achieved a basic parity with the United States that that idea of mutually assured destruction thats gone now now its full spectrum dominance and military supremacy as the operational doctrine of the pentagon this sets the stage for global war and the military doctrine of the pentagon recently revamped says were getting ready for a global war with russia and china. Thats insanity. James you know we had over the last few weeks we had the afghan papers released and it was a home reaction from the Corporate Media i mean it wasnt even mentioned actually from what i could see i mean one huge blunder and all 3 of us and many of our viewers knew it all along that we were being lied to so they want to take they want to militarize space and they can even do an operation like that at the at a huge cost in every single way and they will and and they wont learn from their mistakes no learning curve one minute before we go to the break go ahead james. Well you know that you know we talk a lot about the military Industrial Complex but obviously its much broader that i includes finance includes i. T. Many other things but the fact is theres just a huge establishment of power that encompasses a lot of industry a lot of the both the political the legislative and executive branches of government there are an awful lot of people with very for rice balls over the established policy that way it is and who cares if its a failure those people are doing quite well for themselves yeah well thats very interesting im glad you mention that because no one has ever held accountable i mean we can go through this russia gate hoax you know and people that were charged with process violations going to get it go to prison and people theyd bring in countries like afghanistan in iraq to destruction are never held to account they just move to another think tank with more air conditioning thats my opinion our gentlemen were going to go to a short break and after that short break well continue our discussion on the world stage 30. 36 of the bush with all of those who try to use new york at the sun to make sure the speech. Feel and id be distasteful wolf with them or not only do they go for bush but i will push the issue going to get us know she is going to. Each similar thing civilization would be able to run using a tiny fraction of its resources. Hundreds of thousands millions of rounds for all of Human History almost all. Beings with our kinds of experiences down to simulated ones rather than. Conditional that are good we should think we are probably one of the simulated ones. A dark industry comes to life in los angeles every night. Dozens of women sells the bodies on the street many of them underage. Los Angeles Police reveal a taste of their daily challenge if youre going to exploit a child here in los angeles they were going to come out of your busy offices going undercover as 6 workers and customers to fight the 6 trades. Welcome back across the uk where all Things Considered im Peter Lavelle to remind you were discussing a multipolar world. Ok lets go back to brian in washington i think the real problem here is i was a trained historian and i love history and i still do it study history to this day the big problem we face here in understanding and dealing with grappling with the multipolar world which we do have it respected that denial of the blob and the media is that its american exceptionalism is the biggest problem here because american exceptionalism automatically delegitimizes any kind of challenge ok ill keep it very neutral ok because if you look at Great Britain i mean and one point it covered one 4th of the worlds population inland. Ok and it for the most part gracefully more more or less relinquish that because it was in its interests to do that but it didnt have this exceptionalism in the way it does in the United States is that thats really the biggest barrier its more of a psychological barrier and thats because of exceptionalism theyre blinded to geo political facts and i want to talk about actually a multipolar world is best for everyone at the end of the big go ahead brian. Certainly we what we have in the United States i would say is the toxic entered tangling of this kind of american exceptionalism ideology which has basically the United States has the right to interfere in every country interfere in every region use military power to get its way thats kind of an ideological premise that theres a sort of righteousness a divine mandate to do just that and at the same time as jim was mentioning in the 1st segment the a. B. C. s of the whole project is making lots of money for the people who are making weapons and who have created this ad of this and its not just the war manufacturers its wall street banks its corporate tycoons its hedge funds i mean theyre all of their feeding at the public trough they have to constantly create enemies of the United States has as weve also said in the 1st segment an ocean to the east an ocean to the west its protected the last time the country was invaded was the war of 1812 and yet here we are 207 years later with a 1000 military bases around the world a military budget thats more than a trillion the house of representatives which is dominated by the democrats the socalled resistance just passed the n. D. A. A with the military budget greater than what trump asked for and greater than what the pentagon asked for i mean this is a society that saturated with militarism because it is Good Business and the politicians know that and they dont defy it and thats this interchangeably ideology and the business of war mixing so that the United States reinforces the notion that it must use military power above all else to ensure that its a unit polar world where they have full Spectrum Global dominance thats a recipe for disaster but brian let me if i can stay with you i mean would if you ever imagined it would be the left liberals that would be the champions of cold war 2. 0 i mean because you can throw in the well i think they give an ideological. Respectability to it that is irrational go ahead finish up go ahead its what makes this even more dangerous than the cold war because at least the liberals were demanding band of peace with the soviet union lets not have world war 3 now you have the liberals socalled liberals maybe that word has no meaning then you will agree liberals agree have become part. Of the military Industrial Complex you know james you know it is that theres a lot of time i wish i had a good laugh i guess it was about 2 months ago the New York Times in an editorial kind of no trump maybe you should have better relations with russia which was quite laughable coming from the old gray lady after all this russia gate ukraine gate nonsense here my point is here is that you know china and russia now one of the great boogie men ok state still mostly russia because thats what they in the they like to peddle that ok and theres a lot and theres a lot of people that have business interests in china and their little worried about that but none the less here but is china in russia truly a threat to the washington consensus i would argue not its their hostility towards russia and china that motivates them ok its not aggression they certainly dont want to export any ideology for sure and particularly in china they just want to get rich thats what their primary interest in go ahead james yeah i think that well it depends how you define threat if were going to end a threat to us here in our own country that some kind of aggression is going to be directed against us no of course theyre not a threat if you mean threat to global domination you know yes i guess by definition any country that doesnt want to be dominated is a threat to their program im glad that you and brian mentioned this idea of the left having been against the cold war backward i guess one wonders where russia was run by godless communists but now that theyre not in theyre building 3 churches a day and i guess the left hates them all the more its yeah a very odd paradox that the. Seems to be this imperative now from the left for this you know to the soviet union had an ideology of peace progress and socialism weve got one democracy human rights and free markets and will shove it down your throats with because ancient and bombs if you dont want it you know this kind of messianic vision a messianic world and you know what it comes to the question of x. Well it is i mean the idea we are the savior of the world that we add it is and its when we talk about exceptionalism i dont think we realize how deeply unamerican this is i mean you look at George Washingtons ad admonitio